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Old 01-23-2010, 09:50 AM   #31
seruzawa
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Originally Posted by longride View Post
"yeah, saw where all the costs were deferred until this year."

You been reading the wrong comic books. Those costs are added every year. Just becuase your boy quadrupled the deficit, don't pass that on to Bush. Your boy did that all on his own.

Reagan had to clean up the coward Carter's mess. and then Bush had to clean up the coward Clinton's mess. Just think if either of those cowards had done their job? Then those 'pesky' wars wouldn't have been needed to be fought. Kind of like if I came to your house and trashed it over 4 years and than complained how much you spent to clean up the mess. Just look at any city the Dems control for a real example.
All those pesky expensive wars that the Republicans got us into WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam.... oh wait. Those were Democrat wars. Never mind.

I don't hear any complaining about Obama having embraced the Bush war strategy in Afghanistan. I guess since it's a Democrat war then all the casualties and costs are perfectly acceptable now.
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:30 AM   #32
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Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

Stubborn libertarianism/conservatism is two wolves and two sheep voting on what to have for dinner, and one sheep votes "not sheep" while the other votes "lobster thermidor."

There's a Tea Party movement afoot to take the positions of Republican Party precinct captains. It's beautiful. Take over the party from the bottom. I wish them luck. Why waste time with pointless third-party candidates when you can Borg an existing party?
It illustrates the difference between a conservative and a libertarian. We are allies, but not the same. If democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner, Libertarians insist on having a well-armed sheep. Sort of equals things out.

Suppose, when the Republican party was just beginning, someone had said, "Naw, too much trouble, let's just infiltrate the Whigs." I can't see it, and will persist in helping to advance a Libertarian agenda....

And using "Borg" as a verb! I love it! The other side has "Bork", why not use "Borg"? Cool....
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:04 AM   #33
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It illustrates the difference between a conservative and a libertarian. We are allies, but not the same. If democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner, Libertarians insist on having a well-armed sheep. Sort of equals things out.

Suppose, when the Republican party was just beginning, someone had said, "Naw, too much trouble, let's just infiltrate the Whigs." I can't see it, and will persist in helping to advance a Libertarian agenda....

And using "Borg" as a verb! I love it! The other side has "Bork", why not use "Borg"? Cool....
They're coming to get you, Barbara! They're coming to GET you!.........

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Old 01-23-2010, 09:35 PM   #34
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It illustrates the difference between a conservative and a libertarian. We are allies, but not the same. If democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner, Libertarians insist on having a well-armed sheep. Sort of equals things out.
I'm actually a libertarian (small "L"), and I'm with you on the "armed". I just think we have to be practical. The ballot box is practical. Planning for a shoot-out isn't.

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Suppose, when the Republican party was just beginning, someone had said, "Naw, too much trouble, let's just infiltrate the Whigs." I can't see it, and will persist in helping to advance a Libertarian agenda....
Barb, let's not forget what happened shortly after (and largely because) the Republican Party began. The Republican cause was certainly just (I'll leave Ken to scratch his head what that cause might have been), but I'd just as soon take a pass on those kinds of third-party birthing pains...

As far as "too much trouble" - I submit to you that it is far, far easier to infiltrate and take over the Repubs than to launch and succeed with a third party. The former has about a 80% of succeeding with a strong commitment. The latter has zero percent chance of ever doing anything more than siphoning off votes from the less Leftist candidate.
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Bill Clinton and Chuck Schumer are praising the Supreme Court for overturning an anti-gay-marriage law that they both signed.
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Old 01-24-2010, 06:55 AM   #35
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I'm actually a libertarian (small "L"), and I'm with you on the "armed". I just think we have to be practical. The ballot box is practical. Planning for a shoot-out isn't.



Barb, let's not forget what happened shortly after (and largely because) the Republican Party began. The Republican cause was certainly just (I'll leave Ken to scratch his head what that cause might have been), but I'd just as soon take a pass on those kinds of third-party birthing pains...

As far as "too much trouble" - I submit to you that it is far, far easier to infiltrate and take over the Repubs than to launch and succeed with a third party. The former has about a 80% of succeeding with a strong commitment. The latter has zero percent chance of ever doing anything more than siphoning off votes from the less Leftist candidate.
Thank you, Michael Medved.
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Old 01-24-2010, 07:56 AM   #36
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Thank you, Michael Medved.
Wow, a Seruzawa reference that's going over my head! Had to happen sometime.

So I'll just avoid acknowledging my ignorance by making a joke. "No way, I have a better moustache."
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:00 AM   #37
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Wow, a Seruzawa reference that's going over my head! Had to happen sometime.

So I'll just avoid acknowledging my ignorance by making a joke. "No way, I have a better moustache."
Medved has an entertaining talk show. He claims to be conservative and thinks John McCain is a conservative. He's the sort of conservative who believes in massively huge govt. Oh yeah, he likes to tar all libertarians as crazy freaks. You know, everyone is supposed to vote for Republicans because they aren't as bad as Democrats, that sort of thing. He does have interesting guests though and believes in Bigfoot. A typical Republican he's headed down the path towards totalitarianism, just at a slower pace than the Democrats.
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:16 AM   #38
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See, it's that business about "headed down the path to totalitarianism, just at a slower pace than the democrats." that bothers me. That's like (exactly like, now that I think about it) saying that it's OK to vote for a socialist because at least he's not a communist, and a capitalist candidate wouldn't have a chance to win.

Sometimes if enough people want the person who has no chance to win, and vote their brain and conscience, he just might win.

My major problem is that we call our so-called representatives "lawmakers". So what do they do? Why, they make laws. LOTS of laws, and unnecessary ones. Laws are a lot harder to get rid of than they are to enact. Look at the fallout from our earlier experiment in social mores dictating legislation: prohibition. Did people stop drinking? Not for a second. What did we get from the government legislating morality? Massive crime syndicates supplying a demand for alcohol. Decreased tax revenue, and the creation of new government bureaucrats, complete with the power to kill and confiscate (that's Gov-speak for "Steal your stuff because we don't like the way you do things.")

Same thing with abortion. Don't misunderstand, I detest abortion, I hate the very idea, but--and it's a huge BUT--I'd rather have a 16 year-old rape victim treated with dignity in a regular medical facility than have her hunting up a back-alley clothes-hanger abortionist. The only thing worse than abortion is having the government involved with it.

Do we need government? Of course we do. I just think that local is best, State is OK, and the Fed should be the last resort. Most of our problems could be solved by simply following our own (largely ignored) Constitution.....and I'll vote for anyone who will promise to do just that.

Y'know---sometimes I miss the original Articles of Confederation.
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Old 01-24-2010, 06:24 PM   #39
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Medved has an entertaining talk show. He claims to be conservative and thinks John McCain is a conservative. He's the sort of conservative who believes in massively huge govt. Oh yeah, he likes to tar all libertarians as crazy freaks. You know, everyone is supposed to vote for Republicans because they aren't as bad as Democrats, that sort of thing. He does have interesting guests though and believes in Bigfoot. A typical Republican he's headed down the path towards totalitarianism, just at a slower pace than the Democrats.
Ah, I see. Well, thank you for the explanation, Don Quixote.
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