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Kenneth_Moore 07-22-2009 02:32 PM

[quote=seruzawa;219504]

I have no intention of defending Obama, but come on, what we have today is CRAP. Everybody hated it and said so until Obama started trying to change it. Why don't the Pubes step up with their own plan, they act like we've got this wonderful system now.

But I do know some of it. Some of the features include:

You are required to have healthcare insurance and the Fed will have the power to take the premiums for it from your bank account whether you like it or not.

The Feds have been taking health insurance form my paycheck since the day I started working. Yours too. Look at your paystub.

If you lose you present job you must go on Govt Deathcare.
It would be better than what you get today: NOTHING.

If you need to change your present policy you must go on Govt Deathcare.

You medical records will be owned by the Fed govt.
Did you think your medical records were private now? Really??

You cannot refuse mental health treatment, even Shock Treatment or a Lobotomy if a certified shrink says you need one.

Ever heard of the Baker Act? This is nothing new.

Treatment is rationed on a "cost effectiveness" basis. The elderly who are retired thus don't "need" hip replacements or corneas. Or dialysis.

The insurance companies do this every day now.

I worked for the DoD for 10 years and worked as an engineering contractor for another 10. Only a fool wants the govt to manage healthcare. Heck, anyone who ever tried to get a building permit or a driver's license should already know this.

As if the private insurance companies have done a swell job. It's a f'd up system, it needs to be changed. Maybe Obamacare isn't the answer, but what we have sucks.

Buzglyd 07-22-2009 02:53 PM

Ken, you've made some valid points about the current system however, the one big difference is that any gov't run system will FORBID people from paying out of pocket for care.

Canadians cross the border all the time to pay for care out-of-pocket that is denied them. They are not allowed to pay their own doctors in cash.

Don't forget the Canadian system was originally set up as a public/private system. Funny how the private part went away.

seruzawa 07-22-2009 03:07 PM

[quote=Kenneth_Moore;219516]
Quote:

Originally Posted by seruzawa (Post 219504)

I have no intention of defending Obama, but come on, what we have today is CRAP. Everybody hated it and said so until Obama started trying to change it. Why don't the Pubes step up with their own plan, they act like we've got this wonderful system now.

You said before that thing couldn't possibly be worse than they were under Bush. You were wrong about that. It had already been much worse than Bush under Nixon, LBJ and Carter.

One thing is sure because it has never failed. Give the Govt complete control of health care and they will wreck it just like they've wrecked just about every other social area they have controlled.

But what are we talking about here? Govt has stuck its nose deeper and deeper in healthcare already and each time it's gotten worse. The funny thing is that I hear about all these horrible things on the news, yet I know any number of people who have gotten very ill who didn't have insurance and they all got the treatment they needed. I've come to realize that most of these horror stories are simply completely made up. That's right. These horror stories you see on the news are usually simply actors reading a script. It's lies just like the totalitarians have always used to control public opinion.

I'm not supporting the idea of even more power being given to bureaucrats based on news stories, especially when the govt simply screws it up worse in the end. I'm sorry if you drank the Govt Kool-Aid, but that's not my fault.

Here's the BIG CLUE: Congress has already exempted themselves from the system they are trying to force on us.

Kenneth_Moore 07-22-2009 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzglyd (Post 219519)
Ken, you've made some valid points about the current system however, the one big difference is that any gov't run system will FORBID people from paying out of pocket for care.

Canadians cross the border all the time to pay for care out-of-pocket that is denied them. They are not allowed to pay their own doctors in cash.

Don't forget the Canadian system was originally set up as a public/private system. Funny how the private part went away.

Honestly, I don't really like Obamacare, at least what I've heard about it. But the system we have now is so bizzare. Like: why the hell is medical insurance linked to employment? Couldn't the doctors and hospitals offer some sort of community-based plan? Maybe the government shouldn't run it, but do we really need huge, for profit insurance companies adding billions of overhead?

Kenneth_Moore 07-22-2009 03:11 PM

[quote=seruzawa;219521]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 219516)

These horror stories you see on the news are usually simply actors reading a script. It's lies just like the totalitarians have always used to control public opinion.

Watching Kristine die while the insurance companies, Drs and hospitals played games with money wasn't actors reading scripts.

seruzawa 07-22-2009 03:13 PM

[quote=Kenneth_Moore;219523]
Quote:

Originally Posted by seruzawa (Post 219521)

Watching Kristine die while the insurance companies, Drs and hospitals played games with money wasn't actors reading scripts.

Yeah. That is sad.

But, buck up. Under Federal Healthcare EVERYONE will start treatment too late.

Buzglyd 07-22-2009 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 219522)
Honestly, I don't really like Obamacare, at least what I've heard about it. But the system we have now is so bizzare. Like: why the hell is medical insurance linked to employment? Couldn't the doctors and hospitals offer some sort of community-based plan? Maybe the government shouldn't run it, but do we really need huge, for profit insurance companies adding billions of overhead?

I don't think it should be linked to employment either but that was just another gov't screwup messing with the tax code.

We should just purchase it like we do car insurance. You pay for the cheap things yourself and your insurance covers you if you drive it into a wall.

This whole insurance adding overhead thing is a ruse. Remember, if you get really injured, your insurance will payout far more than you ever paid in. They've got to make some profit to assume the risk.

You ever notice that all these "crisis" are always in areas where there is huge gov't involvement?

Drs. will leave the system in droves if this passes. Would you spend all that money and time in medical school if you made less than a bus driver?

Buzglyd 07-22-2009 03:17 PM

[quote=seruzawa;219524]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 219523)

Yeah. That is sad.

But, buck up. Under Federal Healthcare EVERYONE will start treatment too late.

Ken I feel for you and the boy, however, if you had walked into that treatment with a wad of cash it would have trumped everything.

That will land you in jail under the new system.

You'd be amazed how many Drs have set up shop in Mexico already. It makes me glad I live near the border because I'll be driving down there for care with my checkbook (and maybe an AK47).

mscuddy 07-22-2009 07:00 PM

What about my Kaiser healthcare? What will all the Phiilippinos do? This could be bad, thousands of Philippinos out of work, clogging up the roads with garishly painted Jeepnys!

longride 07-22-2009 07:12 PM

"I have no intention of defending Obama,...."

And then comes 10,000 words............defending Obama.

"Why don't the Pubes step up with their own plan,..."

Because they would have a better chance of sneaking an ice cube into Hell than getting anything passed in Congress. Maybe you noticed Obama 'The Messiah' basically told them all the piss off not long ago. So they have a much better stake in staying out of his f*ck ups and letting him hang himself. They are just giving him the rope at this point.


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