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Old 07-02-2009, 11:55 AM   #11
mscuddy
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Hey, that's a great idea! Then the rebels can go back and hide in the caves until we leave, then they roll back into town and slaughter everyone who cooperated with the foreign invaders! Gee, I think the Mongols found out about that...

By 642 AD, Arabs had conquered Persia and invaded Afghanistan from the west, introducing Islam. Afghanistan at the time had local rulers called the Shahi, which were under the influence of the empire of Tang China, which had extended its influence all the way to Kabul. The Khorasani Persian-Arabs controlled the western and northern areas until they were conquered by the Ghaznavid Empire in 998.

The Arab forces did not conquer all of Afghanistan. The southern and eastern parts of Afghanistan remained independent,first as part of the Turk Shahi Kingdoms (from 565 to 870 AD), then as part of the Hindu Shahi Kingdom of Gandhara, which lasted until it was conquered by the Muslim Ghaznavid Empire in 1021 AD.

Mahmud of Ghazni (998-1030) consolidated the conquests of his predecessors and turned Ghazna (Ghazni) into a great cultural center as well as a base for frequent forays into India. The Ghaznavid dynasty was defeated in 1148 by the Ghurids (Ghor), but Ghaznavid Khans continued to live in Ghazni as the 'Nasher' until the early 20th century, but they did not regain their once vast power until about 500 years later when the Ghilzai Pashtuns's defeated the Safavid Persians in Kandahar. Various princes and Seljuk rulers attempted to rule parts of the country until the Shah Muhammad II of the Khwarezmid Empire conquered all of Persia in 1205. By 1219, the empire had fallen to the Mongols.

Led by Genghis Khan, the invasion resulted in massive slaughter of the population, destruction of many cities, including Herat, Ghazni, and Balkh, and the despoliation of fertile agricultural areas. The country became a part of Mongol Empire. Ghazni was main base for the Mongol campaigns of India. Neguderis settled there under the rule of Chagatai Khans while most of Afghanistan was a part of Ilkhanate. De-facto of Chagatai Khanate Tamerlane, incorporated what is today Afghanistan into his own vast Asian empire. Babur, a descendant of Timur and the founder of Moghul Empire at the beginning of the 16th century, made Kabul the capital.

Etc..etc..etc..
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Old 07-02-2009, 01:12 PM   #12
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I'm just following the British and Russian example and our own models in Viet Nam, they worked so well you see. The trouble with Afghanistan is there is no real central power, Kabul may be the center of government but that gov'mnt ends about 20 feet outside the city limits, after that it's whomever has the most AK's, RPG's and opium money controls the area. You have to either negotiate a treaty that they may or may not honor depending on who's blood feud it affects, or you have to kill them all, neither solution is going to work.
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Old 07-02-2009, 01:20 PM   #13
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I say we air drop about 15,000 hungery Texas pigs on the town and let them go HOG WILD. If the baggies don't get eaten they'll be running scared to get the hell out of town.
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Old 07-02-2009, 02:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12er View Post
"You just don't get it. Every generation has a new crop of people who are smarter than anyone else in history. This time these really really super smart people (who can't balance a checkbook) are going to succeed!"

And don't forget dementia like Rummy knowing not to invade Iraq in '91 and totally forgetting ten years later.
Plenty of blame to go around. I'd like to see the Bushes and Rumsfeld going over the top with Hitlery and Obamalama. See how many wars get started when all the polticians have to lead the charge.
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Old 07-02-2009, 02:25 PM   #15
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I'm just following the British and Russian example and our own models in Viet Nam, they worked so well you see. The trouble with Afghanistan is there is no real central power, Kabul may be the center of government but that gov'mnt ends about 20 feet outside the city limits, after that it's whomever has the most AK's, RPG's and opium money controls the area. You have to either negotiate a treaty that they may or may not honor depending on who's blood feud it affects, or you have to kill them all, neither solution is going to work.
Wars are expensive. Those Afghani's couldn't afford the ammo for an afternoon with an entire year's income. An entire Afghani village couldn't afford one single Stinger missile with a decade's income. When you figure the cost of 50 cal ammo or M79 rounds I expended thousands of dollars per engagement in Nam. And that's just one person. You think a buncha Afghanis can afford that?

Want to stop the war? Stop the War on Drugs. Stop the $ flowing in from Saudi oil barons too.

Follow the money. Always.
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Old 07-02-2009, 02:51 PM   #16
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In an effort to win hearts and minds were not touching the poppy fields. Money keeps flowin...
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Old 07-02-2009, 02:58 PM   #17
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I gots news fer you. The Afghani hill folk will never run out of bullets, guns or explosives, since they make it all themselves. I have an old SOF magazine that has a story of the Pushtin Tribesmen of Afghanistan beating red-hot leaf springs into AK47 replicas. Or rifling a hot barrel by hand with a draw bar. They also have mass amounts of natural saltpeter, sulphur & charcoal up in them thar hills. No one has been able to conquor them in the South & East since time began. Tough bastards.
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Old 07-02-2009, 04:28 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by mscuddy View Post
I gots news fer you. The Afghani hill folk will never run out of bullets, guns or explosives, since they make it all themselves. I have an old SOF magazine that has a story of the Pushtin Tribesmen of Afghanistan beating red-hot leaf springs into AK47 replicas. Or rifling a hot barrel by hand with a draw bar. They also have mass amounts of natural saltpeter, sulphur & charcoal up in them thar hills. No one has been able to conquor them in the South & East since time began. Tough bastards.
Oh I know that. But it's difficult to hand make enough ammunition in a year that would support even one small firefight. Take away the millions in support and they go back to sniping with Enfields.
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Old 07-02-2009, 05:03 PM   #19
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Pull out and when they start to congregate in large numbers and building camps again use predators with hellfires. We'll keep the military industrial complex happy and our men and women out of harms way. Who gives a sh*t about that hole.
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Old 07-02-2009, 05:14 PM   #20
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Been tried before. How do you identify the bad guys from the regulars? Now the rebels are shaving thier beards off, buying western style clothes to blend in. No, if history has anything to say about a Southern Afghan conflict, we are screwed.
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