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-   -   Those Nazis were pretty damn smart. (http://www.motorcycle.com/forum/motorcycle-com-lounge/12408-those-nazis-were-pretty-damn-smart.html)

pplassm 07-01-2009 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeU (Post 217742)
I think it was Northrup that made a flying wing in the '30s and '40s that flew quite well. Modern computers are not needed.

Not according to the men who flew them. Ask CPT Glenn Edwards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Edwards_(pilot)

Also, good article in this month's Air and Space about testing that thing.

Above and Beyond: Too Much, Too Soon | History of Flight | Air & Space Magazine

It wasn't "quashed".

Kenneth_Moore 07-01-2009 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pplassm (Post 217783)
Not according to the men who flew them.

It wasn't "quashed".

I wasn't supporting the theory, just an memory from my KSC days.

President Truman inspected the Flying Wing and even climbed up in the ****pit. While I was showing him the interior, he turned to me and said, “Looks pretty good to me, son. I think I’m going to buy some.” I bit my tongue and just smiled. The president asked the chief of the Air Force, “Why don’t you have this young whippersnapper fly this down Pennsylvania Avenue at treetop level? I want the people to see what I’m going to buy.” I knew my boss was never going to order me to fly a huge experimental aircraft at treetop level over the heart of the nation’s capital.

Well, he did.

mugwump58 07-01-2009 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seruzawa (Post 217725)
...The Allies' strategic bombing campaigns were largely ineffective. Maybe a more effective German fighter would have encouraged the Allies to stop wasting so many men on pointless bombing raids.

From Ambrose's book, more casualties in the 8th Air Force than the Marines in the Pacific.

seruzawa 07-01-2009 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mugwump58 (Post 217824)
From Ambrose's book, more casualties in the 8th Air Force than the Marines in the Pacific.

There are any number of histories of the air war over Europe. Something like 1/2 of all the aircrews were killed during the war. The Strategic Bombing Survey done after the war discovered that the bombing had little effect on industry and often hardened the resistance as troops wanted revenge for their families killed and homes destroyed in raids.

seruzawa 07-01-2009 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 217813)
I wasn't supporting the theory, just an memory from my KSC days.

President Truman inspected the Flying Wing and even climbed up in the ****pit. While I was showing him the interior, he turned to me and said, “Looks pretty good to me, son. I think I’m going to buy some.” I bit my tongue and just smiled. The president asked the chief of the Air Force, “Why don’t you have this young whippersnapper fly this down Pennsylvania Avenue at treetop level? I want the people to see what I’m going to buy.” I knew my boss was never going to order me to fly a huge experimental aircraft at treetop level over the heart of the nation’s capital.

Well, he did.

The Flying Wing controversy will never end. Jack Northrup believed that Consolidated sabotaged the prototype that crashed. It seems that every expert has a different opinion. It is interesting that the contract went to Consolidated (later General Dynamics) to build the worthless B-36. Billions of dollars spread all around for a plane that was easy meat for the Russian Mig-15. Chuck Yeager's autobiography covers the ease with which his F-86s would intercept B-36s hundreds of miles from their targets.

mscuddy 07-01-2009 07:53 PM

Didja watch "Strategic Air Command" with Jimmah Stewart last night on TNN? Man, those B47's were the ****z. Too powerfull!

I liked the B58 Hustler, the shortest operational bomber aircraft ever produced.

mugwump58 07-02-2009 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seruzawa (Post 217825)
bombing had little effect on industry and often hardened the resistance as troops wanted revenge for their families killed and homes destroyed in raids.

This role is now being played out again by UAVs. Not that their a bad idea...

Uncle Sam's Misguided Children are "holding ground" in Afghanistan. Good Luck and Godspeed to the 4,000. Must be the professionals are in charge again instead of the "business based model" guys.

Apologises for the thread jack.

ps Saw a B17 at the air show on Drum last weekend. When I was a kid their wasn't anything I didn't know about them. Now, not so much.

sarnali2 07-02-2009 07:33 AM

Hitler didn't rush into war, he started planning it @ 1105 on November 11, 1918. He spent the 20's building the National Socialists into a political power and the 30's building up the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe. They went to war on their own timetable, infact the only time their they were set back was in starting Barbarossa, that was caused by British led Greek insurgents forcing Mussolini to ask for help in pacifying Crete and Greece. That set the operation back a few months and casued them to get caught out by the winter.

From what I read of various sources Hitler was considered brillient in the planning though timid in the execution, instead of turning his plans over to the OKW to execute he tried to micromanage to the point of distraction, much like LBJ and McNamara in Vietnam.

One thing Bush 1 did right was turn Desert Storm over the Schwartzkopf and let him run with it, only his asnine early halt prevented Sadam's ouster in '90 and would have saved countless iraqi lives and the thousands of killed and injured coalition troops in the second go round.

Buzglyd 07-02-2009 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarnali2 (Post 217844)
Hitler didn't rush into war, he started planning it @ 1105 on November 11, 1918. He spent the 20's building the National Socialists into a political power and the 30's building up the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe. They went to war on their own timetable, infact the only time their they were set back was in starting Barbarossa, that was caused by British led Greek insurgents forcing Mussolini to ask for help in pacifying Crete and Greece. That set the operation back a few months and casued them to get caught out by the winter.

From what I read of various sources Hitler was considered brillient in the planning though timid in the execution, instead of turning his plans over to the OKW to execute he tried to micromanage to the point of distraction, much like LBJ and McNamara in Vietnam.

One thing Bush 1 did right was turn Desert Storm over the Schwartzkopf and let him run with it, only his asnine early halt prevented Sadam's ouster in '90 and would have saved countless iraqi lives and the thousands of killed and injured coalition troops in the second go round.

According to Stormin' Normin's book, ousting Saddam was not part of the original plan. It would have been a good idea but none of the Arab countries would have gone for it and the US would not have been able to use Arab air fields if ousting an Arab (even one as evil as Saddam) was part of the plan.

Hind sight is always 20-20 I suppose. Hey do you think the media will be reporting on the the women and children getting killed and raped by our military in this Afghan invasion? Have our troops suddenly become civilized in the age of 0?

V2Rider 07-02-2009 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarnali2 (Post 217844)
Hitler didn't rush into war, he started planning it @ 1105 on November 11, 1918.

Excellent point on Der Fuhrer. After the "stab in the back" he was on a mission.


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