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Old 06-04-2009, 02:04 PM   #31
seruzawa
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They aren't Martians, Sarnali. They're Moms and Dads and kids and grandparents and teachers and business people and students. They aren't exactly like us in every way, but they are "people", just like us.
Now you know why sarnali doesn't get involved in these discussions. His solution to most of the world's problems are of the "nuke 'em 'til they glow and shoot 'em in the dark" variety. Education problems, welfare problems, economic problems, culture clash problems.... all are resolved by nuking the site from orbit just to be sure.
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Old 06-04-2009, 02:09 PM   #32
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They aren't Martians, Sarnali. They're Moms and Dads and kids and grandparents and teachers and business people and students. They aren't exactly like us in every way, but they are "people", just like us.
Sorry AirHawk,

With due respect, I disagree. We don't teach our kids to bomb bus loads of Jewish tourists. We don't stone women or girls who are raped. We don't expect women to stay indoors unless escorted by a man. Oh, and there are no "business people" in Muslim countries---there are "business men". No women allowed.

We don't kill men or women who stray from marriage vows. We may not like it, but we don't kill people.

In the schools--attended only by boys--we don't base all of the teaching on the Koran (or however they spell it this week--with a "Q", I think...).

I will grant that they are "like us"---as we were in the year 1600. Their philosophy has no place in a modern world, any more than did the Nazi philosophy, or the Imperial wars of pre-war Japan.

I don't know enough about Islam to condemn it. I can, however, witness the results of various interpretations of it's commands, and the results suck. Period. Makes the Inquisition look like a tea party.....
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Old 06-04-2009, 02:40 PM   #33
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Sorry AirHawk,

With due respect, I disagree. We don't teach our kids to bomb bus loads of Jewish tourists. We don't stone women or girls who are raped. We don't expect women to stay indoors unless escorted by a man. Oh, and there are no "business people" in Muslim countries---there are "business men". No women allowed.

We don't kill men or women who stray from marriage vows. We may not like it, but we don't kill people.

In the schools--attended only by boys--we don't base all of the teaching on the Koran (or however they spell it this week--with a "Q", I think...).

I will grant that they are "like us"---as we were in the year 1600. Their philosophy has no place in a modern world, any more than did the Nazi philosophy, or the Imperial wars of pre-war Japan.

I don't know enough about Islam to condemn it. I can, however, witness the results of various interpretations of it's commands, and the results suck. Period. Makes the Inquisition look like a tea party.....
On the other hand I share a cubicle with a Muslim guy who came here from Egypt to escape the Nasser regime. Funny, but we've had any number of discussion on these issues and things are not as monolithic as the media would have us believe. He would gladly kill all the jihadis as he sees them as a twisted caricature of his religion. I think AirHawks view is closer to reality than the hard line here. You have to remember that there are a lot of Muslim countries where you can get a drink and the girls go to school.
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Old 06-04-2009, 02:40 PM   #34
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Ken- I didn't say that the "people" want to kill us. Just the leadership and their soldiers or malitia or whatever. These people have no use for us and would prefer that we and Isreal disappear off the face of the planet. It's not a secret. Iran may be leading the charge, but they have allies that will have their backs. Any people that would train their kids to be bombers are not people that live by the same moral standard as we do. Until the "nice" muslims step up and start removing the old guard we are all targets. It really is that simple.
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Old 06-04-2009, 03:36 PM   #35
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On the other hand I share a cubicle with a Muslim guy who came here from Egypt to escape the Nasser regime. Funny, but we've had any number of discussion on these issues and things are not as monolithic as the media would have us believe. He would gladly kill all the jihadis as he sees them as a twisted caricature of his religion. I think AirHawks view is closer to reality than the hard line here. You have to remember that there are a lot of Muslim countries where you can get a drink and the girls go to school.
Uh, yeah....... except for that part where I just cut-and-pasted what Ken replied to me in a sardonic fit.........

I don't "hate" Muslims, either (as I surmised that She-Who-Had-A-Hardon-For-Me and Ken seem to believe) - I guess you guys don't really know how I feel about Islam, as every time I've actually given a dissertation here, it's been Moderated-away within minutes of posting as "Racist". Although zero slurs or untruths have been typed on my part.

But I digress.
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Old 06-04-2009, 03:37 PM   #36
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Sorry AirHawk,

With due respect, I disagree.
Sorry Barbara - I was just having a bit of a snicker with Ken - those aren't my words; I plagarized him.
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Old 06-04-2009, 04:37 PM   #37
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Uh, yeah....... except for that part where I just cut-and-pasted what Ken replied to me in a sardonic fit.........

I don't "hate" Muslims, either (as I surmised that She-Who-Had-A-Hardon-For-Me and Ken seem to believe) - I guess you guys don't really know how I feel about Islam, as every time I've actually given a dissertation here, it's been Moderated-away within minutes of posting as "Racist". Although zero slurs or untruths have been typed on my part.

But I digress.
Al right then I agree with Ken on this issue to some degree.

Since none of us are going to actually go and DO something talk is cheap as usual.
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Old 06-04-2009, 06:21 PM   #38
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No problem, AirHawk---snickering is good. And it gives me a chance to clarify: women in Saudi Arabia have the vote---since 2005. The jury is still out on the right to drive.

Absurd, of course, but the philosophy that relegates 1/2 of the population to slavery isn't acceptable in this (or any other century). We are far, far from perfect in this country, but we confront our problems and attempt to deal with them. We don't always get it right, but we try.

What I object to is not a religion. Any religion can be picked apart, or believed en toto. My objection is to the everyday fallout that is clearly right out of the Middle Ages. Under the Taliban, women who had been college professors were beaten when they showed a bit of their hand while begging for food, because they were forbidden to work. And it's not just women--men who didn't feel like growing a beard were persecuted and in some cases stoned to death.

Certainly there are people who just want to live and be left alone, and I completely agree. But where oppression wearing the robes of religion exists, I feel the need to contest that oppression.

Hmmm. Long post. I'd apologize, but by now you guys should know better.....
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Old 06-04-2009, 06:45 PM   #39
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Al right then I agree with Ken on this issue to some degree.

Since none of us are going to actually go and DO something talk is cheap as usual.
As I was saying - I don't "hate" Muslims - but I do have quite a few Issues with Islam. That said; I've even got a few bones to pick over Catholicism - Martin Luther had some pretty good ideas for the reformation of THAT particular Cult.

Too bad he just essentially dropped the Idolatry and Moneychanging, and kept everything else................
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Old 06-04-2009, 08:55 PM   #40
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"nuke 'em till they glow then shoot 'em in the dark" is a cute bumper sticker but hardly my solution to the worlds problems. However to have civil discourse, trade agreements and treaties with another country we need to all be on the same page. Radical Islamist's are not even in the same century and have been a plague on civilized society since 1948 when the State of Israel was formed. Their behavior has been little more than that of rabid dogs and just like rabid dogs they need to be exterminated.

I agree the majority of Muslims are reasonable people entitled to their beliefs as are the rest of us however they have turned a collective blind eye to the radicals in their midst for the last 60 years while thousands of murders and terrorist acts have been committed in their name. If they are unable to contain the cancer in their midst then it's up to the rest of us to do so by whatever means neccessary.
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