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Old 05-14-2009, 02:02 PM   #11
Kenneth_Moore
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Franklin Roosevelt executed german saboteurs caught in the US. If it was good enough for FDR and the US then, it should be good enough for us now.
That's true. They held public military tribunals in the US, and followed the law in the process. Why are we doing it differently now?

Nazi Spies In America - Features on thehistorychannel.co.uk
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:18 PM   #12
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That's true. They held public military tribunals in the US, and followed the law in the process. Why are we doing it differently now?

Nazi Spies In America - Features on thehistorychannel.co.uk
Maybe because there was no ACLU in the 1940's eager to get the Nazis off pro bono.

Guarantee me the thorough application of Rule .303 and I'll climb aboard. Because you know damn well those were effectively show trials. There's no way the Prez who put the Japanese in internment camps was going to settle for anything less than a conviction followed by a firing squad. Can you say the same for today's Prez?

And of course, you're missing a key point that has been mentioned several times in this thread, so I want you to pay very close attention and read every word. Are you ready?

THE UNITED STATES AND GERMANY WERE BOTH SIGNATORIES TO THE GENEVA CONVENTION. SO THERE WAS A LEGAL FRAMEWORK.

Got it?
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Old 05-14-2009, 06:58 PM   #13
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Now now now, why can't we all just get along? Soma for everyone!

Zzzzzzzzzzz.....
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Old 05-14-2009, 07:04 PM   #14
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That's true. They held public military tribunals in the US, and followed the law in the process. Why are we doing it differently now?

Nazi Spies In America - Features on thehistorychannel.co.uk

The trials were held on US soil because they were captured here. They were not given access to our courts and were tried by the military. I don't see a whole lot of difference from what Bush planned on doing and what Obama now seems to want to follow.
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Old 05-14-2009, 07:43 PM   #15
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It's easy to say what you would do, when you are sitting on the sidelines. It's when you actually get in the game that a person's mettle is revealed. It was so easy for Obama to make promises that he couldn't and wouldn't keep, because so many wanted to believe him. Oh, well! Meet the new boss... same as the old boss.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:32 AM   #16
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Are you ready?

THE UNITED STATES AND GERMANY WERE BOTH SIGNATORIES TO THE GENEVA CONVENTION. SO THERE WAS A LEGAL FRAMEWORK.

Got it?

So your position is that because Al Queida isn't a signatory to the Geneva Convention that makes it ok to torture people, run secret prisons, deny trial or even military tribunal? Conditional ethics, I'm sure John Adams would be proud of you.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:47 AM   #17
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"So your position is that because Al Queida isn't a signatory to the Geneva Convention that makes it ok to torture people, run secret prisons, deny trial or even military tribunal? Great set of values you've got there, I'm sure John Adams would be proud of you."

Those things have happened in every war since mankind has existed. Just because some arbitrary 'rules' were made doesn't mean anything to anyone when lives are at stake. We are at war, and playing by 'rules' just means that you will lose, just like we did in Vietnam and Korea. Always play by the same rules your enemy sets. If you don't, then don't play.
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:33 AM   #18
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Always play by the same rules your enemy sets. If you don't, then don't play.
I referred to John Adams because he established a precedent before we were even a nation that America will conduct itself differently than everyone else. You may recall the famous case where he defended British troops who were accused of murdering several men and boys in Boston during the course of a riot. The locals were outraged that Adams would step in and defend these "terrorists" who had been operating outside the law in the colonies. At risk to his business (which was decimated by his decision) and his social life (also ruined for many years) Adams chose to defend the troops rather than see justice subverted by expediency, emotion, and a mob mentality.

I think when you conduct yourself at the level of your enemy, you become no better than your enemy. If we go to war against terrorists because we believe in protecting our democracy, society, and freedoms, we'd be wise not to throw our laws, ethics, and morals aside in the process.
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:49 AM   #19
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"I think when you conduct yourself at the level of your enemy, you become no better than your enemy."

Obviously you have never been in a real street fight in your entire life. I got sucker punched when I was 10 because I was being a 'nice guy' and played 'by the rules'. I can assure you that never happened again. I WANT to be better than my enemy.......by beating his ass first so he doesn't beat mine. Am I as bad as him? As long as I'm not the one on the ground bleeding, I don't really care.

"If we go to war against terrorists because we believe in protecting our democracy, society, and freedoms, we'd be wise not to throw our laws, ethics, and morals aside in the process."

You are kidding right? Morals? What do you think old John Adams would think of abortion? Society? What do you think old John Adams would think of government bailouts and a welfare society? Freedoms? What would John Adams think about gun bans and repressive taxation and nanny state laws? The freedoms and society that old John was protecting maybe had the moral edge. Ours certainly doesn't with the corrupt liars we have running the country at the present time, so just do what needs to be done to win. 'All is fair in love and war' Maybe you heard of it? It's so true. 'Nice guys finish last' So true.
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:55 AM   #20
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Gasp, let me drag myself back to the keyboard after being floored by the overwhelming power of your logic and reason...whew, take it easy on me next time, you intellectual giant...ALL CAPS are dangerous in the wrong hands.

So your position is that because Al Queida isn't a signatory to the Geneva Convention that makes it ok to torture people, run secret prisons, deny trial or even military tribunal? Conditional ethics, I'm sure John Adams would be proud of you.
You're absolutely right. I have no idea WHY I never saw it this way before. I'll be sure to tell Nicholas Berg all-about how we should NEVER haze... I mean: "torture" prisoners by humiliating them, next I see him. I bet he'll even agree.................
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