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Old 04-29-2009, 10:09 AM   #41
schizuki
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Now, Ken, Longride wasn't talking about race, but since you seem to want to, I'll indulge you in a separate comment.

The trash in my neighborhood was white, black, Italian, Irish and gypsy. And yeah, shockingly, those different groups had certain identifiable general characteristics, good and bad. See, there's something called "multiculturalism", which your side touts a lot, but never seems to translate into a recognition that it's more than just cool food and nifty music that distinguishes cultures.

Few kids in my school were even halfway decent students, but it was the black kids who were utterly hostile to learning and to people who studied. Now combine that with the statistics of unwed motherhood and tell me what that means for the chances of a person's economic success. And then tell me I'm a racist.

Oh, and the gypsies? Epic thieves. My God, I'm practically Hitler. Too bad I wasn't born deaf and blind so my eyes and ears couldn't turn me into such a troglodyte.

Oh, and us Italians were loud and grabbed our crotches a lot and had an uncle who drove a big Caddie bought with money of suspicious origin. Stop me before I stereotype again...
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:13 AM   #42
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Ken, I rarely see you post anything I agree with. But I've always thought of you as a basically misguided but decent guy who I'd enjoy having a beer with and a friendly, vigorous debate. I'm really disappointed that you'd pull the race card on Longride. It's a lame tactic your side always uses that does nothing but crush debate and unfairly put your opponent on the defensive. You've never been the type to use these stupid liberal tricks. Don't start now.

I'm not going to defend Longride. I'll just tell you my experience, and I bet it's pretty close to his.

I grew up with trash. White and black. The poor, for the most part, are not helpless victims of great malevolent forces. Poverty is, for the most part, a behavior. People like me and Longride saw it every day and refused to be a part of it. If you go to school, get a job and get married, you're unlikely to be poor. If you f*** off in school, crap out a kid at 17 and get on welfare, you will be poor. Period.
And your closing paragraph is exactly why I don't think LR really thought it through when he said "those people are happy where they are." Life isn't that simple, and when we lump everybody in a neighborhood into one catagory, we're not doing anyone any good.

I think George knows he can ding the crap out of me for my "liberal" views and I don't take it personally. And I'm really sure he's smart enough to take that post for nothing more than a pointed "discussion" among friends.
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:20 AM   #43
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And your closing paragraph is exactly why I don't think LR really thought it through when he said "those people are happy where they are." Life isn't that simple, and when we lump everybody in a neighborhood into one catagory, we're not doing anyone any good.

I think George knows he can ding the crap out of me for my "liberal" views and I don't take it personally. And I'm really sure he's smart enough to take that post for nothing more than a pointed "discussion" among friends.
"Happy" may not the the best word to describe it but they are satisfied enough with living like that as long as they don't have to work.
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:29 AM   #44
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"Happy" may not the the best word to describe it but they are satisfied enough with living like that as long as they don't have to work.
Do you really think all the people in poor neighborhoods are there because they don't want to work? Or is it possible that even some people are there because they were born there, they don't have a job or educational opportunity, and they're stuck there? And do you not think that some exceptional people have shown that in spite of all that, they can dig their way out of it?

Don't get the impression that I've lived some charmed life and have no idea what it's like on the "other side." I remember very well living in a cheap Miami motel for months while Dad worked day labor and we ate bread dipped in milk for dinner. And I remember very well putting myself through school working nights and weekends while I lived in my car. Those are the experiences that make me more inclined to help others than not.
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:33 AM   #45
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" Life isn't that simple, and when we lump everybody in a neighborhood into one catagory, we're not doing anyone any good. "

Well Ken, unless you are willing to live in that neighborhood like I did for 23 years, I think my observations and experience is quite a bit more valid than yours. I will certainly back up my statement that the vast majority of the 'poor folk' don't want any better. Wait, they DO want better, they just don't want to have to work for it. That's the catch, isn't it? Make my life better with me doing nothing. Give it a try. How about spending some quality time in the 'hood' and then come back and tell me what you find. It's so easy for you to stand on the outside the tell me what we need to do there. I could tell you very true stories that you wouldn't believe and I can't comprehend to this day. I WAS there but I ain't going back. Know why guys that have success and make it out never return? Because they know there is no chance of changing a thing there. I would have a good chance of getting shot, getting the shyt beat out of me, getting robbed, but changing a thing isn't in the cards. Ken, you have high ideals and that's great, and all I have is reality. Just thanks the Lord every day you didn't grow up in an inner city environment and had all those newspaper headlines right outside your door. If you come up one day I'll take you on a tour. Bring that new Springfield you are getting!
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:37 AM   #46
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Do you really think all the people in poor neighborhoods are there because they don't want to work? Or is it possible that even some people are there because they were born there, they don't have a job or educational opportunity, and they're stuck there? And do you not think that some exceptional people have shown that in spite of all that, they can dig their way out of it?

Don't get the impression that I've lived some charmed life and have no idea what it's like on the "other side." I remember very well living in a cheap Miami motel for months while Dad worked day labor and we ate bread dipped in milk for dinner. And I remember very well putting myself through school working nights and weekends while I lived in my car. Those are the experiences that make me more inclined to help others than not.
Great. You did. I did it. Longride did it. Schizuki did it.

They can too.

What do you mean no educational opportunity? That would be an admission of the criminal incompetence of liberals since if there's any area that has been run by liberals for decades its education.

Once again, stop trying to involve others in the situations your policies created.
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Old 04-29-2009, 11:57 AM   #47
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Thanks, I'll be here all week. Try the collard greens and ham hocks. They're great!
Damn- I felt a southern slam happen just then. It may be soul food in SW Atl, but out here in the sticks it's grandma style.

BTW- I grew up as "the poor, poor, pitiful poor". Still am by my standards. Do I pity people that grew up like me? Hell no. Get off your butts and do something about your situation or quityerbytchin. The words "less fortunate" are a joke. Fortune is earned. Anything other than that is a handout, welfare, wealth redistribution.
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Old 04-29-2009, 12:07 PM   #48
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Ok Angry Mob, who has the answers?
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Old 04-29-2009, 12:20 PM   #49
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Ok Angry Mob, who has the answers?
There aren't any. We just like being angry.
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Old 04-29-2009, 12:33 PM   #50
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Ok Angry Mob, who has the answers?
Return to public policies just prior to the Great Society. All of them.
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