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Old 03-16-2009, 05:15 PM   #31
seruzawa
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Discovery Channel is doing a special Wednesday night on climate change. I'm going to watch it critically; looking for evidence versus hype, emotion versus science, interest versus objectivity.

It's astounding that there isn't consensus on topics as simple as if the oceans are getting warming or colder. The one thing I'm sure of: I don't know enough about climate change.
Actually it isn't. One of my co-workers was a weather forecaster for the USAF for 20 years. As such he knows more about climate than any non-climatologist, which includes virtually every "expert" you see quoted by the MSM. He says that we simply don't have enough data.

Be that as it may there are technological things we can do to clean the air and water that don't require major dislocations of economics nor so they require giving totalitarian power to govt officials. That's why we don't hear them on the MSM, which is entirely in the pockets of the left wingers.
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Old 03-17-2009, 05:11 AM   #32
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NOT a comment on GW, but, this is interesting:

Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So. Another fan of Godwin's law, eh?

Racist.
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Old 03-17-2009, 05:21 AM   #33
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Just to clarify our positions, are we arguing that there is no way Man can alter the earths atmosphere or you believe we can but dont believe the conclusions of so called "warmers?"

I'm not defending conclusions, just the possiblity* that we are significantly effecting...

* replaced the word fact with possibility
That's not really the quesion.

Let's assume you are correct, and that man-made activity is having a negative effect on world climate. (It could be having a positive effect, but that's not germain to the discussion.)

What PAIN are you going to inflict on everyone, in the form of change, and what is the resulting effect? Is the effect measurable? The PAIN certainly is.

If China, India and the rest of the developing world are proceeding unencumbered by PAIN, are we doing any good at all?

And, why aren't we pursuing intelligent strategies towards cleaner power, like updated, regenerative nuclear power plants? You want a low carbon footprint, right? New regenerative technologies leave much less waste than the current older plants. But, Nooooooooooooo. We can't have that.

Instead idiotic corn-ethanol subsidies are forced on us, just to get some fool elected.
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Old 03-17-2009, 11:43 AM   #34
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What PAIN are you going to inflict on everyone, in the form of change, and what is the resulting effect? Is the effect measurable? The PAIN certainly is.

I.
Ive repeatedly stated that my only point is to counter those who believe man cannot effect climate one way or another.

I'm not inflicting squat or providing answers. I'm not becoming a monk on a mountain top or telling you to. You asked what to do, I told you what my wife and I do, which as you can tell is very little.

I live a few miles from one of the first wind farms. Solar on new homes is good (but making solar or recycling solar is another issue) Hydro turbines would be cool either wave generated or sunk at the bottom of a river. Many routes to take, just I hold no power nor am willing to take on the world myself.

I simply believe if we keep spewing toxins at the rate were spewing we will / are effecting the world around us much much more than the natural ebb and flow.
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Old 03-17-2009, 01:11 PM   #35
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What is MSM?
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Old 03-17-2009, 01:12 PM   #36
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So. Another fan of Godwin's law, eh?

Racist.
Not a "fan," per se, but it is interesting. I've found myself going down that road...so it's not like I'm an exception or anything.
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Old 03-17-2009, 02:22 PM   #37
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"I simply believe if we keep spewing toxins at the rate were spewing we will / are effecting the world around us much much more than the natural ebb and flow."

That is simply a belief that nobody knows is true. It may be true, and it may not be. The Algore crew says it isn't up for discussion. I smell a rat any time discussion is off the table. I smell Algore.
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Old 03-17-2009, 05:49 PM   #38
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"I simply believe if we keep spewing toxins at the rate were spewing we will / are effecting the world around us much much more than the natural ebb and flow."

That is simply a belief that nobody knows is true. It may be true, and it may not be. The Algore crew says it isn't up for discussion. I smell a rat any time discussion is off the table. I smell Algore.
I'm being Cereal! *sorry to the none south park fans*

One last thing, Manbearpig is real!
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Old 03-17-2009, 07:23 PM   #39
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I'm being Cereal! *sorry to the none south park fans*

One last thing, Manbearpig is real!
Excelsior!
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Old 03-18-2009, 03:27 PM   #40
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Hi Guys,

Can I pose a little question? Is it possible that the real issue isn't climate change, or it's reality or lack of same, but rather our individual helplessness in the face of what the government wants?

I live in the woods--barely, since the couple of new houses near me, but still, not a town or city. I heat with wood, and when the power goes off, I cook on the wood stove quite nicely, thank you. I go into town twice a month to shop and keep the pantry full, so I'm not running into town every other day for food. My water comes from a spring up on a hill, and is gravity-fed to the 12 old houses on the system. No electricity? No problem--we have water. (My house began life in 1930 as a loggers home at a logging camp.)

Thing is, any time the local PUD (Public Utility District) really wants to get serious about it, they can force us to shut down our water system and hook up to city water, which sucks for any number of reasons, beginning with the fact that our water tests cleaner than theirs.

And if they decide to do that, we have no real say in it. Same thing on a macro scale--no matter how you may feel about climate change, you are helpless. No voice, no representatives, no power, no nuthin'!

Can anyone explain how "government of the People, by the People and for the People" translates into that situation?

That's why I'm a card-carrying member of the Libertarian Party.

I'd apologize for the long post, but as you guys get to know me, you'll realize that this is really a short post----does using up band-width cause climate change?

Barb
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