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Old 02-05-2009, 06:28 PM   #21
12er
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BofA was forced to take the money by Paulson anyway. Now after they used to to buy wacovia or wamu or whatever looted bank they may need it now.
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Old 02-05-2009, 07:04 PM   #22
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That's why these companies have Boards of Directors. They chose the pay scale based on standards that they deem acceptable. Ken will disagree right here, but fact is that no one outside the of the company itself should dictate salary or bonus structure.
Kirk, the Boards of Directors that should be providing private oversight on these companies have become incestuous cliques of "insiders" who sit on each other's boards and approve outrageous and disgusting salary and bonus structures for each other. If you can explain to me why the CEO of a company that has lost over 1/2 of it's value in the past 18 months deserves $127 million dollars in pay for the year, I'd be happy to listen. It's not just wrong, it's obscene. And the day these companies show up begging for a bailout is the day they lose their priviledges. The money these clowns make doesn't fall out of the sky as a gift from God. They generate revenue by using the natural resources, infrastructure, public services, and labor of the nation as a whole. I have no problem with people getting as rich as they can, but when they dismantle and/or sell core industries and put people out of work so they make their artificial stock earnings numbers and get their bonuses at the cost of the nation's economic future, I have a problem with that.
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Last edited by Kenneth_Moore : 02-05-2009 at 07:05 PM. Reason: I'm not going to mention the GMP. Really.
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Old 02-05-2009, 08:59 PM   #23
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Kirk, the Boards of Directors that should be providing private oversight on these companies have become incestuous cliques of "insiders" who sit on each other's boards and approve outrageous and disgusting salary and bonus structures for each other. If you can explain to me why the CEO of a company that has lost over 1/2 of it's value in the past 18 months deserves $127 million dollars in pay for the year, I'd be happy to listen. It's not just wrong, it's obscene. And the day these companies show up begging for a bailout is the day they lose their priviledges. The money these clowns make doesn't fall out of the sky as a gift from God. They generate revenue by using the natural resources, infrastructure, public services, and labor of the nation as a whole. I have no problem with people getting as rich as they can, but when they dismantle and/or sell core industries and put people out of work so they make their artificial stock earnings numbers and get their bonuses at the cost of the nation's economic future, I have a problem with that.
So do we all. So what's the solution? The govt? Ha! no matter what they will make it worse. I'd rather face the problems that come from some out of control businesses than the problems that come when the govt tries to "fix" it. Since the govt brought about the entire mess with easy money and even threatening action against banks that didn't want to loan out bad mortgages how on earth can you think these same govt crooks are going to fix it?
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Old 02-06-2009, 03:48 AM   #24
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BofA was forced to take the money by Paulson anyway. Now after they used to to buy wacovia or wamu or whatever looted bank they may need it now.
I heard about that, and I am just amazed. They actually forced banks in good standing to take money, so that those banks who needed the money "wouldn't look bad".

Then they are "outraged" when the solvent banks do whatever they want with the $.

OMG.
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Old 02-06-2009, 05:27 AM   #25
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I'm pretty sure the definition of stupidity is doing the same things and expecting a different result. Did anybody here really expect that the Gov would 'fix' anything without f*cking it up?
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Old 02-06-2009, 06:45 AM   #26
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Kirk, the Boards of Directors that should be providing private oversight on these companies have become incestuous cliques of "insiders" who sit on each other's boards and approve outrageous and disgusting salary and bonus structures for each other. If you can explain to me why the CEO of a company that has lost over 1/2 of it's value in the past 18 months deserves $127 million dollars in pay for the year, I'd be happy to listen. It's not just wrong, it's obscene. And the day these companies show up begging for a bailout is the day they lose their priviledges. The money these clowns make doesn't fall out of the sky as a gift from God. They generate revenue by using the natural resources, infrastructure, public services, and labor of the nation as a whole. I have no problem with people getting as rich as they can, but when they dismantle and/or sell core industries and put people out of work so they make their artificial stock earnings numbers and get their bonuses at the cost of the nation's economic future, I have a problem with that.
The investment by the Fed into any system of capitalism will undoubtedly kill capitalism. CEOs don't last in jobs if companies don't make profits. I am not in disagreement that the amount of money these Execs make is absolutely insane. I'm not a shareholder of those businesses, buuuuut Board Memebers and shareholder pay these people based on standards they deem aceptable. If you don't like it don't buy their products in protest. Is it possible that after the collapse of all these industries that these very Boards will come to their senses and re-organize their pay structures. Probably, but right now and in the past no one (but the wealth envy crowd) whined as long as the companies were profitable.
As for the sale of sub-companies- if the bottom line is the core business and those subs don't perform to the liking of the core business then tough shyt for those people for not seeing the writing on the wall.
AIG Auto was the profit center of AIG for decades. When AIG Corp collapsed AIG Auto knew it had to separate itself from the "core" or it would be forever linked to failure. Well, guess what? AIG reinvented itself by buying a competing brand name (21st Century Insurance) and taking the new name. Now tell me this- why shouldn't the CEO, COO, CFO and President of AIG Auto get bonuses for taking the money making part of a business and spinning it off? They did all the right things corporately. They made money. They saw an incredibly difficult issue and came up with a plan. They rebranded the company into something new and exciting. Did some job losses happen? Yes! But reduntant employment kills your bottom line. So, some lose out. Lifes a b!tch. Life's not fair. Get over it. The point is that this AIG Auto thing saved most jobs instead of losing all jobs.
Should they receive Fed backing? NO! AIG should sink like the Titanic for it's mis-guided management. AIG Auto would have probably cut ties with Corp anyway because it's a product other companies would desire.
In any case, it's not my job or yours to determine payscale for these Execs. It's the Board and shareholders that make those rules. They certainly can change them at any time. It's their choice.

Ken- go read the Suzuki thread you started. Love you like a redheaded stepbrother. I can't come down this year. Saving money for the wifey's big 40 b-day bash. I think it's costing me more than our wedding.
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:47 AM   #27
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I heard about that, and I am just amazed. They actually forced banks in good standing to take money, so that those banks who needed the money "wouldn't look bad".

Then they are "outraged" when the solvent banks do whatever they want with the $.

OMG.
Yeah just the other day there was the big hubub about Wells Fargo doing a Vegas thang. Then the comments from Wells customers raising hell saying they are going to pull their money out, yada yada yada... Wells was forced to take the cash too and didnt need it. So now they are under the microscope. Small Gov where art thou? (Having contracted to Wells on a couple occasions I know they are too cheap to be in the red)

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Old 02-06-2009, 03:23 PM   #28
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I say we kill Whitey.
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Old 02-06-2009, 03:33 PM   #29
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The investment by the Fed into any system of capitalism will undoubtedly kill capitalism. CEOs don't last in jobs if companies don't make profits. I am not in disagreement that the amount of money these Execs make is absolutely insane...

As for the sale of sub-companies- if the bottom line is the core business and those subs don't perform to the liking of the core business then tough shyt for those people for not seeing the writing on the wall.
Well said! Not sure where we're (the US) going after this major bailout plan. It makes me think of that old commercial (Meineke, I think), "You can pay me now... or you can pay me later."
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Old 02-06-2009, 04:56 PM   #30
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OK riddle me this how can you justify constraints on the Bill of Rights with the justification that it'll be alright after the crisis is past but you can't justify goverment intervention in commerce until the crisis is past. I'm not stating a position it just struck me as odd. People who live in a democratic republic usually get what they deserve. Man that reisling has got me all feisty.
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