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Old 01-14-2009, 01:14 PM   #31
Kenneth_Moore
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You are having a hard time reading today. I said other nations have tortured our military.
You're right. I have to squeeze work in between the MO time, and sometimes it gets in the way. We really need a few pitchers and some AC/DC in the background for this sort of discussion.
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:18 PM   #32
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You're right. I have to squeeze work in between the MO time, and sometimes it gets in the way. We really need a few pitchers and some AC/DC in the background for this sort of discussion.
And a pool table and a dart board.

There was this bar across the street from me a few years back that had ping-pong tables instead of pool tables. That was fun.
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:19 PM   #33
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And your man McCain was uncatagorically against torture and secret prisons. He is also on record as being extremely alarmed about the rise of the private military companies. He gave a great interview in "Why We Fight." If he'd used that for a campaign commercial and picked anyone other than Palin I might have voted for him.

The fact that other nations torture is hardly an excuse. It's something that we used to set the example on. People lynched Negros in Lincoln's time too, are you in favor of starting that back up as well?
So McCain was right about that, but an out-of-touch old dolt on everything else? Can't cherry pick Ken. Either McCain is an idiot, like all your pre-election quotes showed him to be, or he isn't. Your hero Democrats made him out to be an old boob with one foot in the grave, so please stop quoting the guy you didn't vote for, and had zero respect for before the election. We aren't discussing lynching Ken, so please stick with the subject. Lincoln bastardized and destroyed Civil Rights and the Constitution 100 times more than Bush ever did. That is fact. Roosevelt had the American Japanese people interned into camps. That is fact. Things happen when we are at war Ken. Quit acting like these things never happened except for the evil Bush. The funny part is that Obama is now waffling about how to close Gitmo. Here's why. If he lets those people go, and an attack on this country occurrs from one of them, he's going to look like a horse's ass. Obama will reverse almost nothing that Bush started. That will be a fact. I'll bet you anything on that.
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:29 PM   #34
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You're right. I have to squeeze work in between the MO time, and sometimes it gets in the way. We really need a few pitchers and some AC/DC in the background for this sort of discussion.
I'd rather go riding together. Beer later.
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:36 PM   #35
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Riding will only be a dream for a while. 18 inches of snow in the last 4 days, along with sub-zero temps for the next few days, and it looks like the beer is looking better than the bike these days.
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Old 01-14-2009, 02:22 PM   #36
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And with all that; Bin Laden is still making video tapes, Al Quieda is growing, and we aren't anywhere close to ending the war. Gee, it's working really well!
Not video. Audio. With Apple's Garageband or Pro Tools I can edit anything, too. As nice as it would be to capture the scum he plays an increasingly irrelevant role in world terroism. That aside, can you possible fathom what the Feds have stopped? A buddy with Homeland security said that by the time 20th of January comes around there will have been over 130 documented (security blocked) cases of terrorism thrawrted where civilian injuries were calculated at 25 or more since 9/11. Think about that. 3250 people minimum would be injured or dead if not for those dreaded tactics. I don't know about you Ken, but trading a few hundred scum bucket lives for 3250 American lives seems like a fair trade-off to me.
We live in a mean world. It's isn't going to be "peace, love and understanding" in our or our kid's lifetime. Evil is always working and those willing to fight evil must understand that you have to purge the evil in order to eliminate it. If purging means torture or even death of detainees is a result then so be it. Sorry for the bad guys. Heartless? No. Not in my eyes. It's simple. Deplomacy only gets you to the table. Sadly, sitting across from your enemies doesn't end wars if the enemy hasn't lost a substantial amount of their own troops. Generals and their troops win wars not politicians.
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Old 01-14-2009, 02:31 PM   #37
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I have many friends and customers that are fighting in the Middle East. I hate that they are there. He!!, they hate that they are there. But there's a job to be done and we're not finished. Regardless of past mistakes in planning and execution of this war it must be completed. When I say completed I mean that the World recognizes that the US did the job, won the war and returned home. If you can't mark the win box at the end of this fracus then we lose. If we lose we will forever be a target for the bad guys.
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:33 PM   #38
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Well I'm well into a flask of Jamesons, so forgive me please but war isn't a game, it has no political considerations. Aurthur Harris understood that when he sent the RAF to obliterate German cities, Jimmy Doolittle understood it when he set fire to Japan, Sherman understood it when he destroyed the CSA's industrial infrastructure. Hell, Schwartzkof understood it in the first gulf war. Moshye Dyan understood it, Ho Che Mhin understood. The only ones that don't appearantly are these ******* ****suckers in office now who follow MacNamara's "limited Response" doctrine.. the only thing that does is fill American body bags and make the Military Industrial Complex even more blood money.

You want to beat Al Quida and the Taliban? carpet bomb their entire country untill the survivors beg for mercy. Exterminate them like the f*cking roaches they are.
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:14 PM   #39
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Well I'm well into a flask of Jamesons, so forgive me please but war isn't a game, it has no political considerations. Aurthur Harris understood that when he sent the RAF to obliterate German cities, Jimmy Doolittle understood it when he set fire to Japan, Sherman understood it when he destroyed the CSA's industrial infrastructure. Hell, Schwartzkof understood it in the first gulf war. Moshye Dyan understood it, Ho Che Mhin understood. The only ones that don't appearantly are these ******* ****suckers in office now who follow MacNamara's "limited Response" doctrine.. the only thing that does is fill American body bags and make the Military Industrial Complex even more blood money.

You want to beat Al Quida and the Taliban? carpet bomb their entire country untill the survivors beg for mercy. Exterminate them like the f*cking roaches they are.
No doubt. It's called Shock and Phuking Awe.

Trying to fight a war without killing anyone just gets more of our guys killed.
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:15 PM   #40
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So McCain was right about that, but an out-of-touch old dolt on everything else? Can't cherry pick Ken.


Yes, LR I can. Life isn't black and white to me, the issues and people are more complex than "you're with us or you're against us.


We aren't discussing lynching Ken, so please stick with the subject.

The lynching comment was in response to your bringing up what Lincoln did in the modern context. If you bring it into the argument, then I can use it to point out that what was done 150 years ago isn't justification for doing it today.

Lincoln bastardized and destroyed Civil Rights and the Constitution 100 times more than Bush ever did. That is fact.

Be specific. What did he do to bastardize the Constitution and destory civil rights? Lincoln freed the slaves and saved the nation. Are you a separatist? Would you be happier if the Confederacy had won?

Roosevelt had the American Japanese people interned into camps. That is fact. Yes, he did. And it is considered by many to be one of the worst violations of civil and human rights in modern American history. It's something that nobody is proud of, and that nobody can justify. It was wrong then and it would be just as wrong today.

Things happen when we are at war Ken.

We are NOT "at war," LR. We have unilaterally invaded a soverign nation that did NOTHING to us and occupied it. The "War on Terror" IS BULL****! Osama was a one trick pony. Getting out of the occupation is going to be an absolute ***** and will take years. Like Powell said: "you break it, you own it." W broke it, now we all get to own it.

The funny part is that Obama is now waffling about how to close Gitmo. Here's why. If he lets those people go, and an attack on this country occurrs from one of them, he's going to look like a horse's ass. Obama will reverse almost nothing that Bush started. That will be a fact. I'll bet you anything on that.

At last, we agree. McCain, Obama, or anybody else is going to have a damn hard time cleaning up and sorting out this absolute disaster that Bush has left. He's going to have a ***** of a time getting the economy going again too. I have to hand it to you, I do admire your loyalty and willingness to support W, but you're going to be a pretty lonely guy on that mountaintop.
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