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RRocket · 11-03-2001, 01:04 PM

"..possibly the best 500GP racer ever.." What? Is this a joke? After his first brilliant year you're calling him the best 500GP racer ever? Sorry...methinks he has to win quite a few more races and titles before he gets that honour bestowed to him. He MAY do it, but right now, the best 500 GP racer ever? Nope. You're mistaken.

banda · 11-03-2001, 01:24 PM

Ahem,

In case you didn't read the whole article, or hear the news about four strokes in GP next year, this was the last 500 GP ever.

Further, Valentino has, in fact, had 6 brilliant seasons in a row. He has won the 125, 250 and 500 GP championships, each one in only his second season in the class. If you look over the standings, you'll see that young Rossi took second place in overall points last year, his first 500 GP season. In fact, with the exception of his first season in the 125 GP, when he finished 9th in the standings, he has never finished lower than 2nd in overall points.

Oh yeah, he's the real deal.

RobF4i · 11-03-2001, 02:10 PM

Okay, I don't dispute the fact Rossi is brilliant (and in my opinion the best roadracer in the world today) but to call him the best ever is insane. What about Doohan, Agostini, Hailwood or a dozen others. Rossi has the potential to be the greatest of all time but not yet. At 22 I still think he has a ways to go.

banda · 11-03-2001, 05:57 PM

Just for fun, I compiled some 500 GP stats:

Of all the 500 GP riders that have won 10 or more races, there are only 6 with higher winning percentages* than Rossi:

[*]John Surtees - 92.31%[*]Mike Hailwood - 71.15%[*]Giacomo Agostini - 70.83%[*]Geoff Duke - 59.46%[*]Freddie Spencer - 44.44%[*]Kenny Roberts - 44.00%[*]Valentino Rossi - 40.63%[*]Mick Doohan - 39.42%[*]Wayne Rainey - 32%[*]Phil Read - 28.95%[*]Barry Sheene - 28.36%[*]Kevin Schwantz - 27.17%[*]Eddie Lawson - 25.83%[*]Wayne Gardner - 19.15%[*]Alex Criville - 10.79%[*]Randy Mamola - 10.74%

So what does all this prove? Nothing really, but there's one way it could be interpretted: Rossi is the winningest 500 GP rider since Freddie Spencer. That was a long time ago, race fans.

*Winning percentage is 500 GP wins divided by 500 GPs contested.

hola · 11-03-2001, 06:05 PM

There is only ONE man to have won ALL three titles and that is Surtees.And no oe has Rossi achievements by 22. As for Race wins, i believe, only hailwood did so by Rossi's age.

Also keep in mind, that today all classes are far more competitive than in yesteryear, with most machines at the tech limit due to 30 years of the same restrictive rules;therefore, the bikes are as close as they have ever been.

colin · 11-03-2001, 11:29 PM

Don't know what you mean with Surtees winning ALL three titles. He did 500s from '57 to '60, ie 4 years and won in '58, '59 and '60 after Gilera withdrew. ie he had to beat just his team-mate, as the rest of the field were well-outclassed on Nortons against his 4-cylinder MV. Same is true for Agostini and Hailwood, also riding MVs in the 60s and 70s. They had a couple of years competing against each other with Hailwood on Honda and Agostini on MV, dividing the spoils between them. Spencer was clearly spectacularly good, if only he hadn't burn out after a couple of years. Rainey, Schwantz, Lawson, Gardner, KR were good but flawed. Really leaves only Doohan, who would have dominated the whole of the 90s but for the Assen crash in '92.

Best ever is a toss-up between Doohan and Rossi.

badsac · 11-04-2001, 01:03 AM

I think Rossi has the potential to be the best ever GP racer, but this can't be judged until he has finished his career. We've yet to see how he handles severe setbacks that many champions have to face. So far he's been fairly lucky in that he hasn't really injured himself badly yet. It will be interesting to see what effect his first accident that results in a substantial injury will have on him. Will he be as fast when he finds out how much it can hurt?

PsOmA · 11-04-2001, 03:12 AM

Rossi's good, very good, may have been the greatest, but who will ever know? This new MotoGP class is a load of BS. All this crap about "The last 500cc race" is really quite distressing. They should either allow unlimited capacity in 2 or 4 strokes or leave the bloody class as it is. What Id love to see is some huge ass 2-strokes again like the Kawasaki H2 750's of the 1970's. Ive been to classic racer meets where the H2R's have absolutely killed anything in their path including overworked 1100cc - 1300cc Honda and Suzi 4 strokes. The 2 stroke is a race bred machine, it shouldn't be held back because of politics and Honda's non-stop whinging about the ugliness of 2 strokes. No mufflers and mammoth 2 strokes... now thats racing!

Conrats Valentino!

RRocket · 11-04-2001, 10:12 AM

I was specifically replying to the "best 500GP racer ever.." quote. Yes, I know he's won both 125, and 250. That's doesn't make him the greatest 500GP racer does it? Nope. That's a very bold statement to make after only 2 500GP seasons. Sorry. He's got a ways to go before he's the "best" at anything...but I agree he's the real deal. Just hasn't reached "greatest" status yet.

alanheng · 11-04-2001, 01:44 PM

I've never ridden a two-stroke larger than a 50cc scooter...

but I'm deeply inlove with 'em. They seem solely built for power, speed and performance; and you got to love that.

11-03-2001, 01:04 PM	#1
RRocket Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 93	Re: Results of last 500cc GP in History of the World "..possibly the best 500GP racer ever.." What? Is this a joke? After his first brilliant year you're calling him the best 500GP racer ever? Sorry...methinks he has to win quite a few more races and titles before he gets that honour bestowed to him. He MAY do it, but right now, the best 500 GP racer ever? Nope. You're mistaken.

11-03-2001, 01:24 PM	#2
banda Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 230	Re: Results of last 500cc GP in History of the World Ahem, In case you didn't read the whole article, or hear the news about four strokes in GP next year, this was the last 500 GP ever. Further, Valentino has, in fact, had 6 brilliant seasons in a row. He has won the 125, 250 and 500 GP championships, each one in only his second season in the class. If you look over the standings, you'll see that young Rossi took second place in overall points last year, his first 500 GP season. In fact, with the exception of his first season in the 125 GP, when he finished 9th in the standings, he has never finished lower than 2nd in overall points. Oh yeah, he's the real deal.

11-03-2001, 02:10 PM	#3
RobF4i Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 24	Re: Results of last 500cc GP in History of the World Okay, I don't dispute the fact Rossi is brilliant (and in my opinion the best roadracer in the world today) but to call him the best ever is insane. What about Doohan, Agostini, Hailwood or a dozen others. Rossi has the potential to be the greatest of all time but not yet. At 22 I still think he has a ways to go.

11-03-2001, 05:57 PM	#4
banda Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 230	Re: Results of last 500cc GP in History of the World Just for fun, I compiled some 500 GP stats: Of all the 500 GP riders that have won 10 or more races, there are only 6 with higher winning percentages* than Rossi: []John Surtees - 92.31%[]Mike Hailwood - 71.15%[]Giacomo Agostini - 70.83%[]Geoff Duke - 59.46%[]Freddie Spencer - 44.44%[]Kenny Roberts - 44.00%[]Valentino Rossi - 40.63%[]Mick Doohan - 39.42%[]Wayne Rainey - 32%[]Phil Read - 28.95%[]Barry Sheene - 28.36%[]Kevin Schwantz - 27.17%[]Eddie Lawson - 25.83%[]Wayne Gardner - 19.15%[]Alex Criville - 10.79%[]Randy Mamola - 10.74% So what does all this prove? Nothing really, but there's one way it could be interpretted: Rossi is the winningest 500 GP rider since Freddie Spencer. That was a long time ago, race fans. *Winning percentage is 500 GP wins divided by 500 GPs contested.

11-03-2001, 06:05 PM	#5
hola Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 35	rossi record breaker. There is only ONE man to have won ALL three titles and that is Surtees.And no oe has Rossi achievements by 22. As for Race wins, i believe, only hailwood did so by Rossi's age. Also keep in mind, that today all classes are far more competitive than in yesteryear, with most machines at the tech limit due to 30 years of the same restrictive rules;therefore, the bikes are as close as they have ever been.

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11-03-2001, 11:29 PM	#6
colin Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 14	Re: rossi record breaker. Don't know what you mean with Surtees winning ALL three titles. He did 500s from '57 to '60, ie 4 years and won in '58, '59 and '60 after Gilera withdrew. ie he had to beat just his team-mate, as the rest of the field were well-outclassed on Nortons against his 4-cylinder MV. Same is true for Agostini and Hailwood, also riding MVs in the 60s and 70s. They had a couple of years competing against each other with Hailwood on Honda and Agostini on MV, dividing the spoils between them. Spencer was clearly spectacularly good, if only he hadn't burn out after a couple of years. Rainey, Schwantz, Lawson, Gardner, KR were good but flawed. Really leaves only Doohan, who would have dominated the whole of the 90s but for the Assen crash in '92. Best ever is a toss-up between Doohan and Rossi.

11-04-2001, 01:03 AM	#7
badsac Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 120	Re: Results of last 500cc GP in History of the World I think Rossi has the potential to be the best ever GP racer, but this can't be judged until he has finished his career. We've yet to see how he handles severe setbacks that many champions have to face. So far he's been fairly lucky in that he hasn't really injured himself badly yet. It will be interesting to see what effect his first accident that results in a substantial injury will have on him. Will he be as fast when he finds out how much it can hurt?

11-04-2001, 03:12 AM	#8
PsOmA Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1	Results of last 500cc GP in History of the World Rossi's good, very good, may have been the greatest, but who will ever know? This new MotoGP class is a load of BS. All this crap about "The last 500cc race" is really quite distressing. They should either allow unlimited capacity in 2 or 4 strokes or leave the bloody class as it is. What Id love to see is some huge ass 2-strokes again like the Kawasaki H2 750's of the 1970's. Ive been to classic racer meets where the H2R's have absolutely killed anything in their path including overworked 1100cc - 1300cc Honda and Suzi 4 strokes. The 2 stroke is a race bred machine, it shouldn't be held back because of politics and Honda's non-stop whinging about the ugliness of 2 strokes. No mufflers and mammoth 2 strokes... now thats racing! Conrats Valentino!

11-04-2001, 10:12 AM	#9
RRocket Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 93	Re: Results of last 500cc GP in History of the World I was specifically replying to the "best 500GP racer ever.." quote. Yes, I know he's won both 125, and 250. That's doesn't make him the greatest 500GP racer does it? Nope. That's a very bold statement to make after only 2 500GP seasons. Sorry. He's got a ways to go before he's the "best" at anything...but I agree he's the real deal. Just hasn't reached "greatest" status yet.

11-04-2001, 01:44 PM	#10
alanheng Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 61	Re: Results of last 500cc GP in History of the World I've never ridden a two-stroke larger than a 50cc scooter... but I'm deeply inlove with 'em. They seem solely built for power, speed and performance; and you got to love that.