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Old 10-22-2002, 11:11 AM   #31
rsheidler
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Default Re: BS and YOU KNOW IT!!!

If you evaluate greatness in terms of being able to win consistantly under a wide range of conditions, and a wide range of machinery, over time (that is probably a pretty good definition) I agree thar Rossi is likely the best, at least within my memory.



In my estimation, of current MotoGP riders, Rossi is a small step above the next tier, which consists of (in no particular order) Barros, Biaggi, Caporossi, Ukawa, plus perhaps Kato (so long as conditions are dry, that is -- guess if I let him in with that disclaimer, I should also include Sete Gibernau or Carlos Checa -- but only if conditions are wet). There are possibly others as good, but on outclassed machinery it is hard to tell. I would not include Roberts in this second tier.
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Old 10-22-2002, 11:42 AM   #32
Joe_Momma
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Default Need some proof! Edwards and BBoz beat Capirossi and Biaggi.

Personally, I think that Pitt being selected was a bad decision. Making the jump from 600ss to MotoGP, imho is a lot harder than 250 to MotoGP or SUperbike to MotoGP. I don't know how Hopkins made the jump but he did do well with testing the Red Bull Yamaha before they signed him. He is doing relatively well now.



Fonsi and Marco are racing in a depleted field of talent, so of course they will look good. I am not hating on riders that belong but look at it this way- Everyone says how good Biaggi, Capirossi, Katoh are and I agree, but Ben Bostrom, who most will argue there are a few ex-AMA/WSBK riders better than him (Nicky, Gobert, Edwards, Bayliss, E Bos) , went to the Bologna Motorcycle Show in 2001 and CREAMED Biaggi and Capirossi (and a few others) in the TT race. He made them look weak, like he was out playing around. And Biaggi and Cap regularly race TT bikes. It's a lot more popular in Europe than in the US and Bostrom goes out and whips em'. And Cap and Biaggi were on faster bikes! Colin Edwards was leading both races until he crashed, letting Ben Bostrom have the wins. I know this does not tell all but it's odd that the Americans were out there whippin' them at their own game.



I just think Rossi is a bad MoFo and he needs some good competition. I am not taking anything away from 4 time champ Biaggi, but I think that the Euro/Japanese Passport issue in Motogp is ruining viewers pleasure. Let people in, regardless of nationality for better competition. More people will watch better entertainment.
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Old 10-22-2002, 02:05 PM   #33
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Default Not really

[Which brings me to why does anyone ride on Dunlop tires when they have another choice. ]



Actually, they didn't have a choice. This was a serious development year and Michelin couldn't support every team in MotoGP until late in the season, if then. And I'll bet Dunlop provided more pecuniary backing than Michelin.
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Old 10-22-2002, 02:21 PM   #34
rsheidler
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Default Re: Need some proof! Edwards and BBoz beat Capirossi and Biaggi.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying -- There probably are American, Aussi and other riders not in MotoGP who are faster than some of the riders who ARE in MotoGP. I also feel that big $$$ has corrupted the sport somewhat like in F1. When you have huge budgets that require outside sponsorship to fund (especially with non-motorsport related sponsors), these guys logically insist on getting the most promotional value from their products. Just like American companies use big name football and basketball stars to shill their products, Italian and Spanish companies use motorcycle (and auto) racers. It is not surprising that they look at factors beyond the guy's win/loss record in making the selection, and that nationality, as well as charm, reputation and overall image count. Do I like it? No, but that is how it is. The golden rule says that the one with the gold makes the rules!



Personally I cannot imagine why Telefonica Movistar (or whatever their name is) would ever have wanted KR-JR as a spokesman -- he always comes across as an a$$hole. I might use him for a hemroid cream, perhaps.



Re BBoz, I am not sure that I agree that he is not as good as Nicky or GoShow (recall that Ducati picked him over GoShow) and I recall a streak in 2001 where he pretty much whupped up on both Colin and Troy. This year the Dunlops were not up to snuff and he never got his $hit togather, but I recken he is damned close to being the equal of either of them (or most of the guys in MotoGP as well).



How many of the top AMA guys who potentially could run in the top half of the MotoGP field have aggressively solicited MotoGP rides? Certainly Nicky (who got his ride -- or argueably stole Colin's ride), EBoz (who will quite possibly get at least a few GP rides next season) -- who else? Maybe Gobert? A lot of guys are not ready/willing to leave home, family and friends, deal with foreign languages, strange food, constant jet lag etc. Same has been true for many Japanese riders -- more in the past than currently -- for them, life in Europe is much more alien than for Americans. I understand that several of the top Japanese riders who frequently beat up on the WSB riders when that circus comes to Japan have been begged to to to WSB or GP but are not willing to commit to life in Europe.



I am curious on what you base your assertion that the 250 gp field is so weak.



As a spectator, I watch 250 gp with extreme interest and really don't give a $hit that there are no Americans in the field. The close competition and the quality of the racing is as good as anything I have seen. In MotoGP, the battle between Barros and Rossi, or watching Checa's charge from last to first in the rain at Rio was also about as good as it gets. It would take a lot to ruin my pleasure in watching that kind of racing.
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Old 10-22-2002, 05:49 PM   #35
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Default Re: Phillip Island GP Results

hmm

rossi is still a class above teh rest.

and barros is very good but he's not proven.

well see next season.

psycologically barros attacked very early in teh race and he was consitantly cutting down teh lap times and setting a very very very fast pace.

so fast that only rossi could keep up with him.

even ukawa said that they where just goign to fast for him to stay with the him.

rossi and barros where pushign very hard and fast.

like barros said, rossi deserved to win cause he was patiently waitting for barros' tyres to give.

barros selected a bit softer compound.

but anyways, very good race.



i've never really followed superbike or the american's to much.

but from what i get, the americans nicky hayden ? and bostrom have brothers and there pretty close to there family.

this is not a good combination for someone who must travel a lot and rarely see his family.

so i'm guessing when you have brothers /moral support, and it won't be there.

so i'm not counting on the americans to do anything good.

colin edwards would have been good race wise, but marketting wise not to good.

gas jeans i don't think want a 30 somethin year old man sporting as there main sponsor.

and colin looks pretty old.

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Old 10-22-2002, 07:28 PM   #36
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Default Re: BS and YOU KNOW IT!!!

Joe_Momma, you're talking out of your a$$. Edwards himself chose Aprilia/Michelin over the Castrol Honda RC211/Bridgstone combo. Check his website yourself.



If Honda, or anyone else other than you, thought Edwards riding talent fell between Rossi and Biaggi, I can assure you he would get the finest equipment. As it stands, Honda has implied Nicky Hayden is America's best chance at a MotoGP champion and that Edwards is the one who needs to prove himself.



Who are we to argue?!?!



Moto GP is recognized as the number 1 motorcycle road racing series. To objectively rate a rider's talent, a rider must beat the people there, "2nd rate" euro-trash and all. Otherwise, you are comparing apples to oranges.



Same thing in motocross. A MX rider can be world champion, but nobody will consider that rider the best until they beat the best. That means they have beat a bunch of Americans in the AMA.



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Old 10-23-2002, 02:00 AM   #37
Joe_Momma
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Default Re: Need some proof! Edwards and BBoz beat Capirossi and Biaggi.

Some say KrJr comes off as an ass, but the only time I have seen he act that was is when he is complaining. You see, even Rossi says that when he has problems with the bike, he makes a big deal out of it, when most MotoGP riders, especially Japanese, are afraid to say things are wrong with the bike, because they might get the axe. People say Colin Edwards whines, but hey, if you aren't getting what you need to win, you better make a big deal out of it. Everyone knows the KRJR had a bike that was a good 10--20kph slower on some straights than the hondas and he still won a championship. THat's amazing, especially against proven winning Hondas. Now he can't win and he complains. Look at everyone else on the Suzuki, they do a lot worse. Going from first to worst can do a lot to damage someone's ego and motivation. Bostrom was the favorite to win the title this year in Europe, but the bike and the Dunlops wouldn't work together for him, + Dunlops were inferior this entire year.





Personally, I don't care who is in motogp. I wouldn't care if they were all RUssian or Pakistani. I just want to see good racing and not a sponsor show. Put the best riders in there who want to go. Mat Mladin couldn't go. People say he comes off mean but look what happened to him this year... ***** just didn't come together and I can understand what's wrong with BBoz. It's probably the same thing, the tires and the bike just didn't get along. SOmething about those DUnlops this year
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Old 10-23-2002, 05:28 AM   #38
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Default Pitt did a season of Australian superbikes on slicks.

Going by how far behind the leaders he was then he wasn't far out of the ball park compared to Yanagawa who'd been riding the bike all year.



NOBODY would have been putting that thing anywhere near the front especially having only spent a couple of hours total only in practice/racing conditions on the thing.
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Old 10-23-2002, 06:22 AM   #39
rsheidler
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Default Re: Pitt did a season of Australian superbikes on slicks.

Some other website stated that he had never been on slicks -- I don't know anything about his background.



My reference was not intended to imply that he shouldn't have been picked, or that he did not do a good job for his first outing on a new bike. My point was that someone on this thread was slamming GP teams for picking a Spanish (I think, might have been Italian -- I didn't go back and check the reference) rider who came from 600SS, because they allegedly passed up more qualified American and Aussie candidates. I was just pointing out that it is not only Europeans who seemingly get picked with less than stellar resumes.



Personally, I think taking a chance on relatively inexperienced riders who show talent is a good thing, and since Kawasaki was not expecting to win anything at this stage anyway, this gives a chance to better assess Pitt's talens for various future ventures. I'd like to see more teams take that approach.
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Old 10-23-2002, 07:07 AM   #40
bwarbiany23
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Default Let's Change the subject!!!

Okay, let's actually talk about the races maybe...



I thought that 250 race was PHENOMENAL!!! Especially at the end where Melandri and Nieto were battling *NOT* to be in the lead, so that they could make their run on the start/finish straight... And a championship won by 0.007 seconds... That race was one of the best I've seen in a long time, much like the final Imola race between Bayliss & Edwards...



Brad
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