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jamesohoh7 · 07-22-2002, 09:37 AM

A very entertaining race right up until Barros took out Jacque. Also probably the last, best chance the 2-strokes had to win this year. If anyone was watching that race, there was no way Rossi was going to get past Barros and Jacque and make it stick. Too bad Hopkins was out with a broken hand.

Would've been sweet...

-James (an unabashed 2-stroke fan)

mattg · 07-22-2002, 11:11 AM

Honda wins again. And they're will to pay every penny they've got to keep it that way.

rsheidler · 07-22-2002, 01:09 PM

Huhhhhhh???

Are you suggesting that Honda paid Barros to take out Jacques? If anything, this was the one race where Honda's money could NOT buy the victory -- only racing luck could have done that. Honda and/or Rossi must have some good Karma going for them!

mattg · 07-22-2002, 01:26 PM

I would never suggest for a moment that Honda be so bold as to pay for people to throw races. What I mean to say is that Honda has the most money to spend on racing, be it signing the best talent or paying for the best engineering. In this case Honda's deep pockets make it very difficult for anyone else to compete. I would love more than anything to see the little guy take a few races from Honda, but with the way things have been going I just don't see that happening

CONMAN · 07-22-2002, 04:21 PM

Well!, Well!, It looks like the golden boy of Moto Gp had one handed to him. What luck to

have the two guys in front of you crash on the

last couple of laps. I don't think he would have gotten around the 2 stroke bikes on that day.

merv · 07-22-2002, 04:27 PM

What it seems to me is that Honda wins most of the time, not because of money necessarily, but because they dare to be different. Its like the old man is still riding on their shoulder there somewhere. Remember their return to GPs with the NR500 - it didn't win but taught them a lot. So they bring out the NS500 triple and it did the trick against the others fours. Then to get more speed they bring out the NSR, but to be different it has a single crank V4 - less friction they said - always trying stuff - and the NSRs have been the most powerful V4 500s ever since.

Then they are first with the big bang engine and all the others scramble to follow. Once that's happening Mick Doohan convinces them to switch back to what they are now calling the screamer which once was a conventional V4. Now the 4 strokes are back and what do they do, they build 5 cylinder engines not fours. They keep doing it differently, that's their winning edge - not afraid to try. We have seen handling problems with some of their machines, we have seen them not necessarily have the best riders, but on average Honda keeps comimg out on top because they are different and generally try it first. The others follow - KR Snr says he's going to build a five now and I hope he does it soon. He built his three over a decade after the NS500 was retired. I am sure Honda's real secret is in the time they sit there thinking with the old man on their shoulder before they commit to doing things. They probably start with "What do you think the others will do? Then how can we be different to gain an edge?"

Now maybe Ducati will be the one to take it to Honda - they certainly have in WSB. They are going to race the V4 that is really a double twin - a bit of big bang - but again something different. It may have an edge - we will see next year.

Besides all this reflecting, Rossi is something special though and for once Honda do seem to have put one of their as expected powerful engines this time in a chassis that works well straight up. All credit to the total package really and how much of that is due to Jerry Burgess a very winning team chief.

Regards

Merv.

gt750 · 07-22-2002, 05:14 PM

It is time to allow 600c.c. TWO STROKES to race against the 990 c.c. four strokes. It is now unfair to the two strokes, which haven't been redone in at least seven years. They probably quit refining them at least two seasons ago, when they, the Manufactureres, decided to switch to the four strokes. It sucks when there is not enough competition. It is BORING to see Rossi run away always! We need to get rid of W.S.B.!

merv · 07-22-2002, 11:55 PM

What it seems to me is that Honda wins most of the time, not because of money necessarily, but because they dare to be different. Its like the old man is still riding on their shoulder there somewhere. Remember their return to GPs with the NR500 - it didn't win but taught them a lot. So they bring out the NS500 triple and it did the trick against the others fours. Then to get more speed they bring out the NSR, but to be different it has a single crank V4 - less friction they said - always trying stuff - and the NSRs have been the most powerful V4 500s ever since. Then they are first with the big bang engine and all the others scramble to follow. Once that's happening Mick Doohan convinces them to switch back to what they are now calling the screamer which once was a conventional V4. Now the 4 strokes are back and what do they do, they build 5 cylinder engines not fours. They keep doing it differently, that's their winning edge - not afraid to try. We have seen handling problems with some of their machines, we have seen them not necessarily have the best riders, but on average Honda keeps comimg out on top because they are different and generally try it first. The others follow - KR Snr says he's going to build a five now and I hope he does it soon. He built his three over a decade after the NS500 was retired. I am sure Honda's real secret is in the time they sit there thinking with the old man on their shoulder before they commit to doing things. They probably start with "What do you think the others will do? Then how can we be different to gain an edge?"

Now maybe Ducati will be the one to take it to Honda - they certainly have in WSB. They are going to race the V4 that is really a double twin - a bit of big bang - but again something different. It may have an edge - we will see next year.

Besides all this reflecting, Rossi is something special though and for once Honda do seem to have put one of their as expected powerful engines this time in a chassis that works well straight up. All credit to the total package really and how much of that is due to Jerry Burgess a very winning team chief.

Can someone tell me why when I posted this message hours earlier it showed OK, I come back now and it had disappeared so I have entered it again. I don't think what I'm saying here is so controversial that it should have been moderated out. What's the story MO?

As everyone knows I am a Honda fan because I love their can do mentality.

Regards

Merv.

merv · 07-22-2002, 11:58 PM

Problem is the rules have been changed to outlaw the 2 strokes altogether in the future, no matter what size engine in this class. I think the manufacturers pushed for it and the FIM saw the need for change. You can't buy them for the road anymore so there is no point continuing with that type of engine.

Regards

Merv.

Lincoln · 07-23-2002, 02:59 AM

very well thought out post. I concur with your reasoning. Let me add that Honda can afford to be different BECAUSE of their money. If the V5 experiment was a disaster, rest assured Honda would spring right back with some other configuration.

By the way, i'm fully expecting Honda to come out with a V6 or bigger in the near future. No way does Honda rest on their laurels, especially that the other manufacturers must be dreaming up ways to defeat the RCV's, and Kenny Roberts is going to throw a V5 at them. Honda will always stay one step ahead.

Interesting to note that Barros said Jacques' YZR was faster than his NSR. i thought for sure Barros and Capirossi's NSR were the fastest 2strokes on the field

07-22-2002, 09:37 AM	#1
jamesohoh7 Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 211	Re: Results from the German GP @ Sachsenring A very entertaining race right up until Barros took out Jacque. Also probably the last, best chance the 2-strokes had to win this year. If anyone was watching that race, there was no way Rossi was going to get past Barros and Jacque and make it stick. Too bad Hopkins was out with a broken hand. Would've been sweet... -James (an unabashed 2-stroke fan)

07-22-2002, 11:11 AM	#2
mattg Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 59	Re: Results from the German GP @ Sachsenring Honda wins again. And they're will to pay every penny they've got to keep it that way. __________________ continuing the great experiment involving the effects of sleep deprivation among the marginally sane

07-22-2002, 01:09 PM	#3
rsheidler Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,459	Re: Results from the German GP @ Sachsenring Huhhhhhh??? Are you suggesting that Honda paid Barros to take out Jacques? If anything, this was the one race where Honda's money could NOT buy the victory -- only racing luck could have done that. Honda and/or Rossi must have some good Karma going for them!

07-22-2002, 01:26 PM	#4
mattg Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 59	Re: Results from the German GP @ Sachsenring I would never suggest for a moment that Honda be so bold as to pay for people to throw races. What I mean to say is that Honda has the most money to spend on racing, be it signing the best talent or paying for the best engineering. In this case Honda's deep pockets make it very difficult for anyone else to compete. I would love more than anything to see the little guy take a few races from Honda, but with the way things have been going I just don't see that happening __________________ continuing the great experiment involving the effects of sleep deprivation among the marginally sane

07-22-2002, 04:21 PM	#5
CONMAN Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 16	Re: Results from the German GP @ Sachsenring Well!, Well!, It looks like the golden boy of Moto Gp had one handed to him. What luck to have the two guys in front of you crash on the last couple of laps. I don't think he would have gotten around the 2 stroke bikes on that day.

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07-22-2002, 04:27 PM	#6
merv Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: New Zealand Posts: 170	Re: Honda: Its not about money its about philosophy What it seems to me is that Honda wins most of the time, not because of money necessarily, but because they dare to be different. Its like the old man is still riding on their shoulder there somewhere. Remember their return to GPs with the NR500 - it didn't win but taught them a lot. So they bring out the NS500 triple and it did the trick against the others fours. Then to get more speed they bring out the NSR, but to be different it has a single crank V4 - less friction they said - always trying stuff - and the NSRs have been the most powerful V4 500s ever since. Then they are first with the big bang engine and all the others scramble to follow. Once that's happening Mick Doohan convinces them to switch back to what they are now calling the screamer which once was a conventional V4. Now the 4 strokes are back and what do they do, they build 5 cylinder engines not fours. They keep doing it differently, that's their winning edge - not afraid to try. We have seen handling problems with some of their machines, we have seen them not necessarily have the best riders, but on average Honda keeps comimg out on top because they are different and generally try it first. The others follow - KR Snr says he's going to build a five now and I hope he does it soon. He built his three over a decade after the NS500 was retired. I am sure Honda's real secret is in the time they sit there thinking with the old man on their shoulder before they commit to doing things. They probably start with "What do you think the others will do? Then how can we be different to gain an edge?" Now maybe Ducati will be the one to take it to Honda - they certainly have in WSB. They are going to race the V4 that is really a double twin - a bit of big bang - but again something different. It may have an edge - we will see next year. Besides all this reflecting, Rossi is something special though and for once Honda do seem to have put one of their as expected powerful engines this time in a chassis that works well straight up. All credit to the total package really and how much of that is due to Jerry Burgess a very winning team chief. Regards Merv.

07-22-2002, 05:14 PM	#7
gt750 Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 46	Change the rules!!! It is time to allow 600c.c. TWO STROKES to race against the 990 c.c. four strokes. It is now unfair to the two strokes, which haven't been redone in at least seven years. They probably quit refining them at least two seasons ago, when they, the Manufactureres, decided to switch to the four strokes. It sucks when there is not enough competition. It is BORING to see Rossi run away always! We need to get rid of W.S.B.!

07-22-2002, 11:55 PM	#8
merv Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: New Zealand Posts: 170	Re: Results from the German GP @ Sachsenring What it seems to me is that Honda wins most of the time, not because of money necessarily, but because they dare to be different. Its like the old man is still riding on their shoulder there somewhere. Remember their return to GPs with the NR500 - it didn't win but taught them a lot. So they bring out the NS500 triple and it did the trick against the others fours. Then to get more speed they bring out the NSR, but to be different it has a single crank V4 - less friction they said - always trying stuff - and the NSRs have been the most powerful V4 500s ever since. Then they are first with the big bang engine and all the others scramble to follow. Once that's happening Mick Doohan convinces them to switch back to what they are now calling the screamer which once was a conventional V4. Now the 4 strokes are back and what do they do, they build 5 cylinder engines not fours. They keep doing it differently, that's their winning edge - not afraid to try. We have seen handling problems with some of their machines, we have seen them not necessarily have the best riders, but on average Honda keeps comimg out on top because they are different and generally try it first. The others follow - KR Snr says he's going to build a five now and I hope he does it soon. He built his three over a decade after the NS500 was retired. I am sure Honda's real secret is in the time they sit there thinking with the old man on their shoulder before they commit to doing things. They probably start with "What do you think the others will do? Then how can we be different to gain an edge?" Now maybe Ducati will be the one to take it to Honda - they certainly have in WSB. They are going to race the V4 that is really a double twin - a bit of big bang - but again something different. It may have an edge - we will see next year. Besides all this reflecting, Rossi is something special though and for once Honda do seem to have put one of their as expected powerful engines this time in a chassis that works well straight up. All credit to the total package really and how much of that is due to Jerry Burgess a very winning team chief. Can someone tell me why when I posted this message hours earlier it showed OK, I come back now and it had disappeared so I have entered it again. I don't think what I'm saying here is so controversial that it should have been moderated out. What's the story MO? As everyone knows I am a Honda fan because I love their can do mentality. Regards Merv.

07-22-2002, 11:58 PM	#9
merv Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: New Zealand Posts: 170	Re: Change the rules!!! Problem is the rules have been changed to outlaw the 2 strokes altogether in the future, no matter what size engine in this class. I think the manufacturers pushed for it and the FIM saw the need for change. You can't buy them for the road anymore so there is no point continuing with that type of engine. Regards Merv.

07-23-2002, 02:59 AM	#10
Lincoln Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 203	Re: Results from the German GP @ Sachsenring very well thought out post. I concur with your reasoning. Let me add that Honda can afford to be different BECAUSE of their money. If the V5 experiment was a disaster, rest assured Honda would spring right back with some other configuration. By the way, i'm fully expecting Honda to come out with a V6 or bigger in the near future. No way does Honda rest on their laurels, especially that the other manufacturers must be dreaming up ways to defeat the RCV's, and Kenny Roberts is going to throw a V5 at them. Honda will always stay one step ahead. Interesting to note that Barros said Jacques' YZR was faster than his NSR. i thought for sure Barros and Capirossi's NSR were the fastest 2strokes on the field