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Old 07-23-2002, 03:37 AM   #11
das
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Default Re: Results from the German GP @ Sachsenring

Er, um, as has been pointed out repeatedly in the past, Kawasaki Heavy Industries dwarfs Honda in total size. Honda just chooses to spend more on motorcycle racing and design/development.



Personally, I'm glad Honda blows so much money on bikes. If they didn't, who would? It also forces other manufacturers to spend money to stay competitive.



As for Honda's dominance of top-level GP racing... well, yeah, it does get a bit old after a while. It was great when KRJR won the championship on the Suzuki, but I guess that just wasn't meant to last.



I think the real issue is that Honda is the only manufacturer who *consistently* makes a competitive bike, so the very best riders, who could go anywhere, choose to go to Honda. Honda continues to win and get good publicity and good R&D from it, so they continue to pour money into it.



It's really a vicious cycle, not unlike the Montreal Canadiens dominance of North American hockey in the 50's and 60's.

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Old 07-23-2002, 06:10 AM   #12
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Default Re: Change the rules!!!

The 2-strokes have had excellent support. They're much faster this year and it's not all tire development. Until they can match the emissions of the 4-strokes they're dead. If direct injection and other developments pan out they may be back in a few years.
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Old 07-23-2002, 06:20 AM   #13
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Default Chicken and Egg... They..

(make it better so it sells better so they can afford to...) Repeat from beginning.
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Old 07-23-2002, 07:36 AM   #14
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Default Re: Results from the German GP @ Sachsenring

I'm not sure how it was done, but you were downrated to zero with no moderate-code. I rated you Informative and got you back in the thread. You have a right say what you think, and you say it well.
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Old 07-23-2002, 09:59 AM   #15
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Default Re: Results from the German GP @ Sachsenring

Thanks.



Merv.
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Old 07-23-2002, 10:25 AM   #16
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Default Re: Change the rules!!!

jmeyn,



We are well into the area of prediction and personal opinion here but I do not think we will see the two-strokes in MotoGP competition again for a long time, if ever. At the core manufacturers race to sell product, the vast majority of the people buying road going motorcycles prefer four-stoke engines. Therefore the manufacturers want to race four-strokes.



Two-stroke lovers please save your time disagreeing with the "what the people want" sentiment. I know you love two-strokes but history shows the majority do not. Two examples, in the seventies all there of the "two-stroke" Japanese companies converted their products to four-strokes in the US well before the EPA standards took effect. From Yamaha's (I think) 1970 SX650 through Kawasaki's 1972 Z-1 to Suzuki's 1977 GS750 they all changed, the EPA standards didn't effect bikes until 1979. In the early eighties Yamaha proved a two stroke (the RZ 350) could pass the US standards. The bike was cheap, an absolute blast to ride, reliable for a two-stroke and a total failure.



FWIW, I miss the ring-dings a bit myself,



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Old 07-23-2002, 10:29 AM   #17
Lincoln
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Default FWIW....

...who the hell cares if grand prix motorcycles have anything in common with road going motorcycles?! not Rossi or Barros.

i know Michael Schumcher and the gods at Ferrari could give a honk if their vehicle has any resemblance to a car
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Old 07-23-2002, 12:37 PM   #18
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Default IMHO of course

Sure, SlowBear. We can't know. But I want the manufacturers to follow every path to improving their respective breed. GP is only one way to prove concepts and generate interest.

Again, we can't know, but we can hope.
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Old 07-24-2002, 05:18 AM   #19
das
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Default Re: Results from the German GP @ Sachsenring

I got a chance to see the race last night... and I'm not so sure I agree with your assessment.



Yes, Rossi did have problems passing Jacques the first time, but he *did* get past. He passed Barros on his first try. No, he couldn't run away from the two-strokes, but they only got past him because he made a mistake.



Given that Rossi had caught right back up to Barros and Jacques (after his error, and just before their crash), and the fact that Rossi then proceeded to go even faster (after their crash), I would not be so quick to say "there was no way Rossi was going to get past Barros and Jacque and make it stick".



I don't think it would have taken Rossi 5 laps to pass Jacques again... he already learned earlier in the race that the front straight was the place to do it. Barros is never easy to pass, but Rossi passed him without much difficulty the first time. And let's face it, the fact is that Rossi typically saves his best for last, turning his fastest laps at the very end of races, after everyone else has slowed because their tires have "gone off", and this race was no exception.



Jacques and/or Barros might have been able to hold Rossi off, but it definitely wasn't a sure thing. To bad for everyone that we'll never know.



-das (unabashedly in complete awe of Rossi's riding abilities)
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Old 07-24-2002, 06:08 AM   #20
laverda3c
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Default Street two strokes are still alive and kicking

Hey hate to burst your small world bubble, but you can buy street legal two strokes if you live in the world outside of north america.



Cheers,



Mark -%)
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