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Old 05-10-2010, 08:46 AM   #11
mscuddy
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Ken, if you read the post you'll see the corporate dictum is that "Honda is a four-stroke company, and we want to win championships with four stroke technology" or some such tripe. It goes hand in glove with the new Honda "Green" nonsense. Honda was the company behind the four stroke debacle that has shrunk the sport and forced beginners and privateers out of the MX game when their bikes blow up, and there's no money to fix 'em.

Check out my column in "industry news" the four stroke fiasco part six. Investigation revealed Honda has aligned themselves with the green movement and off-road haters such as the desert turtle conservatory and global warming wackos.

They have shelved modern clean two stroke technology and will pay the price eventually.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:57 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by mscuddy View Post
Ken, if you read the post you'll see the corporate dictum is that "Honda is a four-stroke company, and we want to win championships with four stroke technology" or some such tripe. It goes hand in glove with the new Honda "Green" nonsense. Honda was the company behind the four stroke debacle that has shrunk the sport and forced beginners and privateers out of the MX game when their bikes blow up, and there's no money to fix 'em.

Check out my column in "industry news" the four stroke fiasco part six. Investigation revealed Honda has aligned themselves with the green movement and off-road haters such as the desert turtle conservatory and global warming wackos.

They have shelved modern clean two stroke technology and will pay the price eventually.
I'm wondering if Honda didn't see the shift to delicate expensive 4strokes as a way to stem the bleeding. The sales of dirt bikes in general had been falling for some time due to massive land closures. Large areas of the USA were closed in the 70s and 80s. If there's no place to ride nearby then no one will buy dirt bikes. With sales inevitably falling Honda could have seen the shift to 4 strokes as a way to reduce the financial losses of fewer bike sales with increased parts sales. Yeah I know that Honda has been contributing millions of dollars to the causes that closed these riding areas. But corporations are run by people. People often do conflicting things.
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Old 05-10-2010, 09:12 AM   #13
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Ken, if you read the post you'll see the corporate dictum is that "Honda is a four-stroke company, and we want to win championships with four stroke technology" or some such tripe. It goes hand in glove with the new Honda "Green" nonsense.
You're using one of my favorite debate tactics, the "tautology." Like saying "he's bald... because he has no hair!"

Again, Honda's only reason for being is to make money. Somewhere there is a motive driving this that they think, (and I put the emphasis on think) will make them money. Like Seru said about Detroit, they thought they could make more money selling junk than stepping up and building quality cars. Maybe Honda thinks they can make money on being "Green," I don't know. Maybe they think they can drive the industry to 4-stroke and thereby equalize the detractions from not having 2-stroke. I dunno, when I can't make sense of a motive, it bothers me.
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Old 05-10-2010, 09:14 AM   #14
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I'm wondering if Honda didn't see the shift to delicate expensive 4strokes as a way to stem the bleeding. The sales of dirt bikes in general had been falling for some time due to massive land closures. Large areas of the USA were closed in the 70s and 80s. If there's no place to ride nearby then no one will buy dirt bikes. With sales inevitably falling Honda could have seen the shift to 4 strokes as a way to reduce the financial losses of fewer bike sales with increased parts sales. Yeah I know that Honda has been contributing millions of dollars to the causes that closed these riding areas. But corporations are run by people. People often do conflicting things.
Aren't dirt bikes the only 2010 bikes Suzuki is offering in the US?

Editor Duke, does MO have any stats on how dirt bike/offroad sales are doing? Is it a shrinking market?
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Old 05-10-2010, 09:19 AM   #15
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They're a car company now.
Man, they've been a car company since Soichiro Honda became enamoured with his idea of the 1300 Coupe back in the early '70s. Only, that's really all they give a crap about now.
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Old 05-10-2010, 11:27 AM   #16
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"You're using one of my favorite debate tactics, the "tautology." Like saying "he's bald... because he has no hair!"

No, I'm quoting what Honda said. Dirt bike sales of four stroke MX bikes have tanked. You can go into any Honda dealer and see '07 CRF450F's sitting gathering dust and cobwebs. The word is out. They might be fantastic MX bikes to some people (which they aren't) but they only last a few races before you have to sink big $$$$ into them.

KTM is the leader now in two stroke technology, and expect to see them the major player when they release the "clean" two strokes early next year.

Honda, in a salty way of saying things, really stepped on their d!cks when they tried to change the sport. And that's the truth.
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Old 05-10-2010, 04:25 PM   #17
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You can go into any Honda dealer and see '07 CRF450F's sitting gathering dust and cobwebs.

Honda, in a salty way of saying things, really stepped on their d!cks when they tried to change the sport. And that's the truth.
The market has a way of correcting bad thinking. Just ask all those former GM workers...
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:11 AM   #18
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In my opinion its not a consperacy to sell more parts by going to four strokes. I also think you need to give a little leway when a major manufacture starts to produce something they avoided for many years when the 2smokes were alot more accepted.

Imo Honda always trys to be the leader, the first one to be on the cutting edge of popular topics like going green. Lets admit it that sells, it sells Cars, Bikes, Lawnmowers, etc...

I would tend to think most of the reasoning behind there fourstroke move is more based on emmission's and the forcefull hand that weilded
by people in government.

Cuddy, great article and a good find!!! Thanks

BRING BACK THE REAL BIKES PLEASE?
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:29 AM   #19
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Imo Honda always trys to be the leader, the first one to be on the cutting edge of popular topics like going green. Lets admit it that sells, it sells Cars, Bikes, Lawnmowers, etc...

True, but Honda is no longer the industry leader by any stretch of the imagination. It plays catch-up now while claiming to be the innovator. Pretty pathetic.

I would tend to think most of the reasoning behind there fourstroke move is more based on emmission's and the forcefull hand that weilded
by people in government.


Those rules made with the encouragement of Honda.

I consider Honda a bit of a joke company as far as motorcycles go. Sure, they are the biggest seller. But so is Microsoft. All that proves is that low standards are acceptable by the general public. The VFR is a hideous looking bike that costs more than the slick looking BMW. Honda has no real AT in the US market except for the ridiculously overpriced Dullsville that sort of fills the niche. The new ST1300 is a cheap looking plastichrome 730lb pig. Etc etc. The Fury is another example of Honda being years behind smaller companies, in this case Victory. F*** Honda. No Honda will grace my garage again. Honda can shove its "green" money. Those donos to US enviro-wacko groups are being used to try to close huge tracts of BLM land. Honda can KMA.
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:48 AM   #20
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All that proves is that low standards are acceptable by the general public. The VFR is a hideous looking bike that costs more than the slick looking BMW. Honda has no real AT in the US market except for the ridiculously overpriced Dullsville that sort of fills the niche. The new ST1300 is a cheap looking plastichrome 730lb pig. Etc etc. The Fury is another example of Honda being years behind smaller companies, in this case Victory. F*** Honda. No Honda will grace my garage again. Honda can shove its "green" money. Those donos to US enviro-wacko groups are being used to try to close huge tracts of BLM land. Honda can KMA.
Let's sort out the purely subjective opinions from what might be actual facts.

The VFR is expensive, but BMWs aren't exactly cheap. I think it's a gorgeous bike with the freshest, most attractive styling I've seen in years. Quality of materials and assembly is equal to or better than any BMW I ever saw. ST1300...no argument, but people who own them love them. If the Fury is a failure, I'd love to fail like that. They can't sell enough of them.

The last sentence...WTF is that? I think Honda donates to the environmentalists to curry favor with them to try to mitigate land closures, not encourage them. If the M/C industry weren't out there actively lobbying for M/C issues there would probably be far less land available than there is now.
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