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schizuki 07-24-2004 08:42 AM

Re: Can you handle the truth?
How ironic the you, the defender of truth, picked that particular section to link to. Because it's all lies:

"Kerry began by referring to the Winter Soldiers Investigation in Detroit. Here, he claimed, 'over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia...[snip grisly and absurd recitation of bogs crimes]'

In fact, the entire Winter Soldiers Investigation was a lie. It was inspired by Mark Lane's 1970 book entitled Conversations with Americans, which claimed to recount atrocity stories by Vietnam veterans. This book was panned by James Reston Jr. and Neil Sheehan, not exactly known as supporters of the Vietnam War. Sheehan in particular demonstrated that many of Lane's "eye witnesses" either had never served in Vietnam or had not done so in the capacity they claimed."

Now, kpaul, your boy lied. But what is interesting is his response to Senate questioning after his slanderous opening speech, when asked if he had personally participated in any of these activities. Since you're such a link-rich truthseeker, dig that one up.

schizuki 07-24-2004 08:53 AM

Re: Can you handle the truth?
My mistake. It wasn't during the Senate testimony. It was later:

Videotape, MEET THE PRESS, April 18, 1971:

MR. KERRY (Vietnam Veterans Against the War): There are all kinds of atrocities and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free-fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50-caliber machine guns which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search-and-destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare."

Now, kpaul, please spin this into something other than John Kerry confessing to being a war criminal. Go ahead. This should be fun.

schizuki 07-24-2004 09:10 AM

Re: seen that new Buell?
That's three links now that you've made to that pack of lies (see my "Winter Soldiers" reply)

Before you keep arrogantly asking if people can "handle the truth", you may want to stop lazily cutting & pasting links without checking their factuality with some elementary Googling. Then again, that may be too much intellectual rigor to expect from a Michael Moore fan.

pdad13 07-24-2004 01:33 PM

Re: Her Favorite Biker Accessory
You may be a marketing genius.

pdad13 07-24-2004 02:00 PM

Re: Yes, you are.
Yes he did what?

I'm assuming you mean he got through flight school on special treatment. Provide some evidence. Do you have a verified account of this? No, you don't. What you're doing is called slander. And it's about the most cowardly thing you can do.

In fact, that seems to be the Dems primary tactic in this election year. Aside from the fact that they've not presented a coherent solution to any problem or a clear and consistent position on any issue, and, seemingly have a total lack of vision, this is reason I have no confidence that they will do a credible job if they're elected. Why don't you throw around a few Nazi references while you're at it. Just silly.

pdad13 07-24-2004 02:14 PM

Re: seen that new Buell?
As fond as I am of Buell, I don't know about this one. Other than the handguards, which don't do much for me from an apperance standpoint, there really isn't any functional difference between this and the "old" XB9S.

It's a matter of taste of course, but the translucent bodywork reeks, to me, of a 6-year-old Apple G3 or iMac. Remember when everyone then jumped on that trend and started making all sorts of plastic-translucent gizmos? That fad expired in a hurry. In fact Apple dumped the idea fairly quickly. Good for its time, but that time has long passed. Kind of seems like a weak gimmick to me.

That said, I'll reserve final judgment until I see one in the flesh, um, plastic.

Oh, I forgot the headlight grille. Big deal.

badinfluence 07-24-2004 03:19 PM

Re: Yes, you are.
Actually Bush passed the written part of his flight exam (basic understanding of the principals of flight) by only one point. One more missed question and he would have flunked. He did not pass his navigation exam.

He did have special treatment to get into flight school. He was in the Air National Guard, which is at the bottom of the barrel for learning to fly, meaning, if there are any spots left after the regular Air Force personnel are enrolled, they take some from the Guard. In 1968 a three-member board of officers decided that Bush should get a commission direct to second lieutenant after completing airman basic training, skipping all enlisted ranks.

Thanks to his daddy, he was put to the front of the line over more than 300 more qualified applicants, some who had been waiting several years to get in an airplane.

Bush was also flying F-102's, at a time when the F4 ruled the skies over Vietnam. He was flying an airplane that was nearly 20-years old at the time. It was a good craft at the time it was commisioned in the late 50's and early 60's, but hardly top-of-the-line hardware for 1972. Many F-102's in museums were decommisioned in 1971 and 1972, the same year he was flying them (by comparison, F4's were built up until 1979 and are still in service as Wild Weasels in the USAF, 30 years after their first flights over Southeast Asia)

So, yes he was smart enough to get through flight school, after daddy pulled strings to get him there. His record shows him as a "capable" pilot, but not an exemplary pilot that stood-out in his squadron. He was not his daddy. He was flying a "museum piece". AND, he never saw combat.

pdad13 07-24-2004 06:48 PM

Re: Yes, you are.
No one is questioning whether or not he got special treatment to get in to flight school. I think it's a foregone conclusion that any child of the upper classes gets special treatment in almost any endeavor, regardless of their party affiliation. Just look at the Kennedys, or Al Gore, or John Kerry. My point was that he made it through flight school. We were addressing the popular myth that this man is unintelligent. While he may not be a genius (like the vast majority of us), the idea that he is a mental incompetent is utterly false.

And I don't care what kind of fighter he was flying, the fact is that most of us probably couldn't do it at all. Besides, until the Air National Guard came under the direct control of the Air Force, I doubt they were getting many top line fighters. Then again, I was a toddler during the time in question. So, someone who knows better can speak up.

This isn't a question of whether the man was a top pilot. It's a question of distorting reality about his intellect. We've got a few people around this board who like to cast all sorts of allegations around when they themselves seem to be unable to compose a coherent thought.

That is what gets me. Not the differing viewpoints, or ideologies, but the crude, superficial way in which they are supposedly debated. If someone can't think of a rational point, they insist that the man is intellectually inferior based on something they probably heard a standup comic say. That is about the least intellectual thing I can think of. If we combed through the academic and professional past of everyone on this board, I wonder how many would hold up half as well under such scrutiny. Yet, to hear them talk, you'd think that some of them should be running in November. The hypocracy is frightening.

seruzawa 07-25-2004 02:41 AM

Re: There you go again I whooped your ass again as usual
I know a guy who is an expert on human behavior. He says that Kook definitely has the communication pattern of a child molester.

So it's gotta be true. As true as Kook's bilge. I'm convinced.

seruzawa 07-25-2004 02:50 AM

Re: Can you handle the truth?
Pretty interesting... Kerry taking part in the burning of villages. I was on a gunboat (for more than 2 months) and never had an opportunity to burn a village. Maybe if I was so stupid as to ground the boat and run onto the shore chasing a wounded VC I might have had the opportunity. But any boat captain stupid enough to use a gunboat as a personal landing assault craft in my division would have been relieved of command.

Kerry was such a problem with his out of control shooting at civilians (and even South Vietnamese troops!) that he drew the attention of the higherups. They eventually would have had to get rid of him if he hadn't faked his way out of his tour with self-inflicted purple hearts.

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