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Old 05-02-2001, 02:05 PM   #31
DrEvil
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Default BIKES DONT KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE!!!!!

More importantly, our rider training should be as good as it is in Europe. A scooter with an uneducated rider on it is more dangeous than an R1 with and experienced rider on it any day. Young people should have to work there way from 50cc up. The motorcycle companies would love the extra sales. They have no problem selling the big ones, only the small ones. DrEvil....
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Old 05-02-2001, 02:48 PM   #32
granny
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Default Re: The U.N. will Design Your Next Motorcycle

This is 1) a troll for a flamefest or 2) a Harley rider who is upset because his porcine machine is unable to pass a Subaru. In any event, I'd say that the value of used 100+HP bikes will escalate if the Frogs get their way with 100HP horsepower limits. Goverment officials should not be allowed to design or specify anything, government regulators are usually industrial rejects looking for cushy jobs.
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Old 05-02-2001, 03:24 PM   #33
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Default Re: Boy, do you guys miss the point!!!

I don't own a gun, I'm an archery bigot but still support the right to bear arms and oppose legislation regulating gun ownership. You might ask me if I approve of Uzi's and other such pointless weapons in the hands of the public and I'd respond that my disgust with Uzi ownership is very much like the disgust others may hold towards my sportbike ownership. In either case one can ask to what possible use can either device legally put to use? (a form of polo using motorcycles to hunt mosquitoes in parking garages I guess?). The problem with all laws that limit a particular activity (however discreetly) is that the laws gradually become more and more restrictive.



As far the "war on drugs" is concerned, I think it's clear that it is a facade to protect the numerous "investors" who would stand to lose a great deal of profit should drugs be legalized. No legislation will eliminate the sale of drugs, there will always be someone willing to take the risk regardless of the penalties (assassinating Pablo Escobar did not decrease cocaine traffic, it merely shifted it to a different cartel). Drug use can only be curtailed by convincing the public to not use. It would be better to legalize and tax drugs (as is currently done with the socially acceptable drugs, alcohol and tobacco).
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Old 05-02-2001, 03:43 PM   #34
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Default Re: Boy, do you guys miss the point!!!

The rub is that the folks with the cars would quite gleefully eliminate motorcycles all together so they could carry on their insane game of freeway bumper cars. Cars are so safe now that you have to FrUCtose up considerably (filter that one out Blip to actually be hurt in even a serious (vehicle damage-wise) crash so people are more frequently driving like it doesn't matter if they crash. Since bikes don't bump to well, eliminating bikes (powered or pedalled) would allow the bumper car game to continue unfettered.
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Old 05-02-2001, 03:44 PM   #35
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Default Re: Boy, do you guys miss the point!!!

Granny,

I guess this is degenerating into a discussion on gun control. My initial point was to address what I thought of as a slight to my national pride (one of my many vices) related to freedom.



As for guns and sportbikes, I am of the opinion that both should be legal But I have no issues with having certain competency requirements before one can acquire and use one. Driver's licensing should be stricter (not just for bikes, for all motorists). And, I think to own a gun one should demonstrate some rudimentary knowledge of firearms use, maintenance and safety.



As I said, if such regulation is against the US constitution, that's fine with me, don't do it. However, if I choose a different path here in my own sovereign liberal (note the small l) democracy, I don't think it is a demostratiion of being under the thumb of an oppressive government.



What this has to do with the UN and Bike standards, I'm not sure. However, I think people worry a bit too much about the UN. It is made up of representatives of mostly legitimate governments representing the national interests of their people. I doubt very much if this is about horsepower limits, althogh environmental issues may be (and should be) on the block. Anyway, the US will have a lot of influence - use it wisely.



Finally, some standards are good; fuel nozzle sizes, driving on the correct side of the road, fuel octane requirements, and, although some might not like it, noise and emmissions regulations. I love my high performance bikes, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy clean air and a quieter world either.



Mike
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Old 05-02-2001, 04:01 PM   #36
granny
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Default Re: The U.N. will Design Your Next Motorcycle

To play the devils advocate, I would care if you splatter yourself because I might have to clean up the grease spots you leave or fix your broken body if you live or feed your parentless children if you die or take care of whatever in your life was left unfinished. It is a bit of dilema since on the other hand, I doubt that the majority wants to live in a padded cell. As riders we all probably have the view that the extra risk of riding is well worth taking considering how short our lives are. Not everyone holds that viewpoint. Some people want to save your ischial tuberosities no matter how sorry they think them to be.
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Old 05-02-2001, 06:38 PM   #37
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Default Re: The U.N. will Design Your Next Motorcycle

If the manufacturers only have to design bikes for one market we will all get to enjoy the cost savings. How tuff do you think it would be to modify these machines to overcome restrictive requirements? Probably not very. I see the aftermarket companies salivating at this prospect. If we all stay involved enough to make sure that the design requirements are not ridiculous this could be a win win deal for everyone.
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Old 05-02-2001, 09:26 PM   #38
Abe_Froman
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Default That is false.

The "implied powers" argument you mention refers to the "general welfare" clause of the constitution. In the Federalist Papers, Madison states that that particular clause was NOT designed to give the federal government unlimited power. That would effectively negate the rest of the constitution, which was designed to limit the government to a few specific powers (although FDR deep-sixed that notion a long time ago. Considering the constitutionality of a law BEFORE passage has become a taboo.)
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Old 05-02-2001, 09:31 PM   #39
Abe_Froman
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Default Quite right....

Surrendering our liberties and choices to an unelected organization littered with socialists cannot be good no matter how you slice it. I am seriously considering a vote for the Constitution party the next time around. Part of their platform is to withdraw from the UN, and require them to move their headquarters out of the country. When we bow to an organization that purports to represent numerous other countries, we simply surrender our sovreignity, plain and simple. On both gun control and the environment, their current goals are entirely at odds with the United States Constitution and our national interests. How can their rules on motorcycles be any different?
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Old 05-02-2001, 11:54 PM   #40
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Default Re: The U.N. will Design Your Next Motorcycle

I'm not in favour of too many regulations, but a lot of our EU stuff do make sense (to a degree). And there's NO HP LIMIT ON OPEN BIKES in EU (for now, they tried but failed). Germany with their no top speed limit on the "Autobahns" (except ; if you do have an accident above 130 Km./h ~80 m/h, you're to blame) is the only EU country with a 100 HP limit (you can work your way around it). The only common EU HP limit is 34 HP for young beginners, until 20 years of age.



The current emmision laws are ok, BUT I can't agree on tighting them further when for instance lawnmovers still polute so much. Ie.: to cut the grass on my parents two small lawns roughly equates the same amount of polution their car makes after severeal hundreds of miles driving. So instead of making it harder for motorists they should make rules for ALL utility machinery, ei.: lawnmovers, chainsaws, generators, .... etc.



Common rules for the minimum "quality" of ; light, horn, brakes and the rest of the safety related stuff can't be all bad.
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