Go Back   Motorcycle Forum > Motorcycle.Com General Discussion > Motorcycle News > Old News > MO vs. World

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-13-2001, 10:24 PM   #61
BlownAwayIG
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 19
Default Re: Weekend Madness on Ortega Highway

Contrary to what most people see on COPS or Real Stories of the CHP...most units DO NOT have dash mounted cameras...Those systems are very expensive and have limited visibility.
BlownAwayIG is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links Remove Advertisements
Motorcycle Forum
Advertisement
Old 03-13-2001, 10:55 PM   #62
BlownAwayIG
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 19
Default Re: Weekend Madness on Ortega Highway

I guess you missed the BIG picture, so,,,I'll put it into very simple words and sentences.



ORTEGA HIGHWAY...What part of that says, Ortega Internation Speedway, Ortega MotorSports Complex...Hmmm...Let's see,,,Posted SPEED LIMIT, 25 mph, 45 mph, 55 mph. DOUBLE YELLOW PAINTED lines dividing the road for traffic. DOUBLE FINE ZONE since people like you think rules don't apply to you and you think it's your RIGHT to act a fool. You see, the double fine zone was put there because people think, "It's not going to happen to me, I'm to good..." They're too STUPID to fear death...So hit'em where it counts...$$$



Myself, I love going fast, I ride both on and off road, I've raced both on and off road, go-carts (125cc shifter 100+mph), I am a licensed pilot. But there's a time and a place and people like you don't understand it. And it wouldn't be so bad, but it's usually someone else who's got to clean up the mess. And it's not just Ortega Highway, It's Mulholland Dr., It's I-15 Between Barstow and Vegas, Highway 18 in Big Bear, Highway 138 "Death Trap Highway Between Victorville and Palmdale, It's a a road in Apple Valley where 2 Sport Bikers raced and hit a 16 year old girl in Volkswagon at over 100 mph cutting it in half and ejecting her almost 100 yards down the street, killing her and the idiot who hit her instantly.



Do you tell her parents,,,A few bad apples...



Maybe you should get the list of major accidents and fatalities for Ortega Highway.



I don't believe in GUN CONTROL. My attitude is, GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE. But I'd be willing to give up my guns anyday of the week if it meant another kid wouldn't be killed by a gun. Are you willing to give up something that IS NOT INTENDED FOR THE USE IT'S BEING USED FOR ( Ortega Highway is road for transportation not Sport bikers or racer personal use) IN ORDER TO SAVE ONE LIFE??? I haven't been back to Ortega high way since I seen the passanger of a COOL R-6 owner go down and take her with him, He was alright, He had a Leather Jacket, Alpline Stars Gloves and an Arai Helmet. She had an Generic $90 helmet on, Nylon jacket, jeans and Keds tennis shoes, no gloves...Get the picture.



How many constitutes, A FEW BAD APPLES. Be responsible, check out the numbers yourself.
BlownAwayIG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2001, 11:03 PM   #63
BlownAwayIG
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 19
Default Re: Weekend Madness on Ortega Highway

I'm sure that officer got up that morning, went to the bathroom and looked in the mirror and asked himself,,,Gee, I wonder what it is I can do today to get the S--T kicked out of me for absolutely no reason...Hmmm...



With your mentallity, don't complain if you and your wife are just walking in front of your house and someone walks up and puts a couple of rounds in your wife. Because hey, I wonder what she did to initiate this..



Just goes to show you that you don't need to be a rocket scientist to ride a bike...or be a part of the human race

BlownAwayIG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2001, 05:14 AM   #64
das
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 237
Default Re: Weekend Madness on Ortega Highway

Dude... two things. First of all... relax. Take a couple slow deep breaths and re-read my post.



I didn't say anything about it being anybody's right to injure or unreasonably endanger anyone else. I didn't say anything about not imposing or extracting fines or other penalties for such behavior. If you're riding your bike in such a way that you injure or unreasonably endanger someone, you should be penalized. That's what the law and law enforcement is for. I have no problem with that.



But law enforcement is not what you suggested. You suggested banning all motorcycles from that road. And that's wrong.



Second point... no I wouldn't give up my guns even if it meant one less kid would be killed. I know, that sounds callous at first blush, but you have to realize that almost every man-made item/activity kills people. Vehicles, sports, plastic bags, swimming pools, electricity, almost every job, toaster ovens, guns, skiing, fire... etc, ad naseum. I'm simply not willing to give up everything, (and force everyone to do so also) spending my life sitting still doing nothing for fear that someone else doing a similar activity or using a similar product might die.



I'm certainly not suggesting that unreasonably dangerous products are ok, I'm saying that just become some item or activity kills someone (or even many, many someones) is no reason to ban others from using or doing it.



You can make arguements about where the line is between reasonably and unreasonably dangerous, but you're not going to convince me that motorcycling on any of those roads that you mentioned is unreasonably dangerous. Sorry.

das is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2001, 05:45 AM   #65
stevegrab
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 368
Default Re: Weekend Madness on Ortega Highway

Read what? Where did the article say all bikes were being harassed? It said "We've[MO] received a number of e-mails from Southern California riders who mentioned getting pulled over and questioned repeatedly by CHP officers on Ortega Highway .."



It never said all bikers, nor did it say harassed. This might have been the opinion of the people sending emails, or your interpretation. You think cruisers and Gold Wings were getting pulled over? I doubt it. It sounds to me like they had a vague description "sportbike, croctch-rocket, Ninja racer" so they were pulling over all sport bikes.



I think as far as the police are concerned (and the law itself) this was the reason, a partial description fit, giving them probable cause to check ALL sportbikes.



I can understand how people feel threatened, and think this is harrassment. But the police have a legitimate reason for this. What do you think happened. AM Roll Call at CHP, Sargent says "Ok patrolmen, we really hate bikers, so let's go out to Ortega Highway today and harrass them for no reason. We don't need one, we're cops."



That would be harrassment, but that is not what is going on. If somebody in a black pickup did this, they'd be pulling over black pickups. Somebody who assaults a police officer is a real danger and needs to be dealt with. I'm sure these guys have bragged to their friends about how cool they were to "put the chippie in his place". Maybe one of the riders pulled over will turn them in.



stevegrab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2001, 06:09 AM   #66
CrustyOldFart
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 22
Default Re: Weekend Madness on Ortega Highway

This has to be one of the most eloquently written, well thought out, and lucid comments I've ever read on this subjuct, and I could not have done any better myself. It seems like "das" has a realistic and practical assessment of the balance between personal risk and danger to life and limb.



Bravo. I agree 100%.
CrustyOldFart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2001, 06:41 AM   #67
das
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 237
Default Re: Weekend Madness on Ortega Highway

Just my opinion, but I think that you are the one missing the "BIG picture". It doesn't matter how many or what percentage of people are breaking a particular law or set of laws, or getting killed or injured. It's still a bad idea to ban or otherwise restrict motorcycle usage on that or any other road.



Maybe a vague analogy would help.... a major premise of our legal system is that you are innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. As many people past and present have stated and believe, even if this system allows 100 guilty people to walk free, if it prevents even 1 extra innocent person from being penalized, that's acceptable.



This is a similar situation, but sort of reverse. Even if 100 motorcyclists break the law on this highway, placing restrictions on it to prevent even one law-abiding motorcyclist from using it is unacceptable.



Sure, it would be nice if everyone would use the road safely, but that's not the point.



If it bothers you to know that motorcyclists are using that road unsafely, then, rather than seeking restrictions, perhaps you should seek to establish a day or days when that road is closed to non motorcycling traffic, with emergency medical assistance on hand, etc. Go for it. I'm not willing to help you, though (because, among many other reasons, I don't live anywhere close to that road).



P.S. Pulling over and allowing faster-moving traffic to pass you is just common courtesy, not doing so is just egotism. Just because someone wants to go faster than you does not mean that he/she thinks that it is their right to use the road as their personal property, even if you are already traveling at the posted limit (or well above it). In case it matters, yes, I have pulled my sportbike over to allow a pickup truck to pass me (the road surface was lousy with potholes, patches and sand, he obviously knew the road well, and I'd never been on it before).
das is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2001, 07:04 AM   #68
bugsplatter
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 33
Default Re: Weekend Madness on Ortega Highway

I am glad that you are a 100% law abiding motorcyclist but at least I admit that I am not. I ride 10-25 miles an hour faster than the speed of traffic on the freeway. So you can definitely site me for speeding there allthough no CHP officer ever has, maybe because they realize that that is the safest way for me to ride. If I was on the Ortega Highway which I understand is a choice bit of road I most likely would be speeding there as well, maybe not over 100 mph on straits but speeding all the same. When I do group rides I've noticed that I am a natural tail end charley as I tend to be cautious and on these occasions I am also breaking the law as yes, I tend to be speeding.

However, it seems that you have misunderstood my comment, I am not advocating "needless harrassment of bikers" as you so eloquently put it. I am just saying that I don't object to officers doing their job. If it means stopping me to ask about a crime where I loosely match the only desciption they have so be it.

I ride a bike for the sense of freedom and immediate consequence that it gives me.
bugsplatter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2001, 07:17 AM   #69
bugsplatter
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 33
Default Re: Weekend Madness on Ortega Highway

Bravo,

Finally someone admits that even though we ride different types of bikes we are united in the risks we face. Why is it that we seem to divide ourselves into subgroups. I too wave to anyone on a bike.
bugsplatter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2001, 07:33 AM   #70
JizzaR6
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3
Default Re: Ninjas

What are "those" kinds of bikes? Do you ride a harley? Do you ride at ALL?!?!?! There are no "those" bikes, there are only bikes, we all ride on two wheels, "cant we all just get along?"
JizzaR6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off