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ZR-7 03-05-2001 03:38 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
OK, I paid $12. Its not a lot. Let me say this; I just got RIF'd from my job last Friday - so every dollar counts.



PS Where is the Valuebike test?

minime 03-05-2001 03:41 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
You mean this Valuebike Shootout we did at the end of December?

Shaft 03-05-2001 03:51 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
Get someone with some financial common sense and maybe charge more for advertising or not pay your people so much. If you charge money to view your site, myself along with 98% of MO's fans will leave and the site will be long gone for sure... guaranteed.

starvingstudent 03-05-2001 03:54 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
I think he may be referring to the SV650 v ZR7 v M900 review that you hyped a month or so ago. Is that one still in the works, or has it fallen by the wayside?

minime 03-05-2001 04:00 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
It's not that simple, Shaft. Wish it was.

minime 03-05-2001 04:01 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
When we get the new M900, it's a go. But they haven't come to us just yet...

Believe me, we're as anxious as you are.

bimota 03-05-2001 04:07 PM

D@#n You!
Well, you've finally convinced me to send a donation, if only because I see some of my comments got used for the article. It'll take me a day to get off my butt and do it, but look for it.

You know Brent, you could snag donations from people scared of online transactions by having a physical address where they could send checks, money orders, etc.

And for the people that are scared to use their credit cards on the internet: What are you thinking? That no secure site is secure? That there are millions of hackers just waiting to grab your number? Do you even think twice about leaving your credit card with a gas station cashier while you pump gas? Do you worry about calling someplace like LL Bean or any other catalog company? How do you know they're not stealing your number? Get real. You don't even think about it. You just assume that a reputable company like LL Bean or Chevron won't let that happen. The only reason people are scared to use credit cards on the internet is that they don't understand the technology. Unless you know how you card might be stolen on the internet, or why a secure server might be vulnerable assume MO is doing thier best and that it's safe.

POPtart 03-05-2001 04:08 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
Can someone please fix the link to the Reader Feedback for the SignetGT tested not so long ago?

Thx. POP

Gabe 03-05-2001 04:10 PM

You are NOT the man who would give his life for his brother
man, "Shaft". You are wrong. How much do you pay a year for motorcycle magazines with half the content of MO?

If you think you can get as much content and timely info from another website, go. You won't find it, however. The other online sites are a joke, with the exception of MotorcycleNews.

You're such a genius at running a profitable website, I suggest you start your own- you obviously know so much!

I can just see the meeting at the MO office: "Do you think we should charge more for advertising?"

"No way! That's way too risky!"

"How about paying our staff less?"

"Forget it! That concept is much too complex for me!"

Do you really think they're not charging the maximum for advertising already? How stupid do you think they are?

Have you ever run a business? Successful business people never, ever pay ONE DIME more than the absolute minumum necessary to function properly. I would have to say that since MO has been profitable for 5 years, it is a success. Name 10 other sites of any kind that have turned a profit for 5 years, if you can.

I, for one, see no problem shelling out 10-15 bucks a year if it will guarantee I get the timely, informative content I have depended on for the last 5 years.

Can't promise more than that, though.

blip 03-05-2001 04:13 PM

Re: D@#n You!
Oh yeah, an address to mail checks. Actually, more people mail in checks from our classifieds than use their credit cards.

Duh. Shoulda thought of that. We'll stick our address in there. But how to set the yearlong cookie for people so they don't have to see the ads? Right now, everyone, even those that donate, see them 'cause I haven't spruced up the ad server code yet, so I guess it's moot this week. Which will give us time to figure out a solution and look like we're smart and stuff.

We do take online check transfers, I guess we should point that out too.

blip 03-05-2001 04:18 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
We'll make a new one, the old BBS is all torqued up and offline.

Gliderguy 03-05-2001 04:35 PM

Re: D@#n You!
I'm no computer expert, but if you had people who mailed you checks include their email address so you could give them some kind of password that let them into an area that would load the cookie you needed...

That only leaves the problem of only the authorized donor getting the cookie... Guess there would have to be some extra verification step or something to keep 500 people from using their buddy's password. (maybe it only works a few times, to allow for folks like me that occasionally like to reformat a hard drive)

The_Blue_DoGGG 03-05-2001 04:36 PM

I tried
I tried but got this error message: FAILED!

The authorization server returned a failure code of:

3 - An error occurred during processing. Call Merchant Service Provider.

Please try again - Motorcycle Online relies on these generous contributions from noble folk such as yourself to stay afloat and bring you the very best in all things Motorcycle.

so what do i do now?

bimota 03-05-2001 04:37 PM

Things I forgot
The problem with posting at work is some times you get distracted by it, and lose your train of thought. Part of what I was going to say in my first post is that I hate being proven wrong. That's where the "d@#n you" comes from. Originally I said I wouldn't pay, donate, etc. But after reading through all these articles I realized that 1) I must love MO to spend so much time here, and 2) I'm not any kind of charity case. I posted about how great BKS gloves are. How could I turn around and say you're not worth $13, that I can't spare it? Really. So I finally got a clue, and that should have been in my original post.

Gliderguy 03-05-2001 04:38 PM

Re: D@#n You!
I'm no computer expert, but if you had people who mailed you checks include their email address so you could give them some kind of password that let them into an area that would load the cookie you needed...

That only leaves the problem of only the authorized donor getting the cookie... Guess there would have to be some extra verification step or something to keep 500 people from using their buddy's password. Maybe limit each unique password to work only a few times, to allow for folks like me that occasionally like to reformat a hard drive.

Course that would be a boring full time job sending out e-mails for someone on the staff...

Gliderguy 03-05-2001 04:39 PM

Re: D@#n You!
D'oh, where is the edit button when you need one...

Calamari 03-05-2001 05:03 PM

Re: D@#n You!
Yes we need an alternative to the cookie.

Some of us log on from different machines.

Some of us have teenagers who manage to kill

all the cookies to keep Dad from snooping.

hardware swaps,virus damage.ect

passwords are a drag but their transferable.

SB8RC 03-05-2001 05:04 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
i would donate but.... im sure ill be banned soon enough

unless....can i become ban immune if i donate?

harleys suck

blip 03-05-2001 05:06 PM

Re: I tried
There was an unknown error with your credit card. Most of the errors are caught and returned and it'll tell you what's up, so I guess try again and make sure all your info is correct...

Calamari 03-05-2001 05:24 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
The Boss man himself quoted astin martin in the

story read his stuff I'm pretty sure your safe

blip 03-05-2001 05:30 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
I can boot you off if'n it'll make you feel better... but I don't see why we would. We've only booted one person this year, two last year. Most people are pretty civil.

This is funny: when you get booted, you can't read MO, you get redirected to:

the whiner's page.

HaVoC_X 03-05-2001 05:32 PM

2 Questions...
First of all I don't mind paying, considering I spend alot more per year on cycle mags, (motorcycle racer, sport rider, etc...)

However, I am one of these anal people who enjoy anonymity during my surfing and as such I run cookie management software and even that has it's cache cleared on a daily basis. Before you tell me I'm being paranoid don't bother I know you can track/profile user movement across the internet through cookies because I work as a programmer (although not web based). Is there a way of simply implementing username/password right's authentication?

2nd question is did you consider the idea of changing yourself to a not-for-profit organization so as to allow your readers to claim donations on income tax.

Thanks alot and yes I love your site, best on the web...

ZR-7 03-05-2001 05:34 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
Starving had it right..."Part Duex" of the Valuebike test.

I think most riders wanted to see the Ducati M600/750 up against the SV650 and ZR-7. The M900 is almost twice the price of the other two bike.


gort9 03-05-2001 05:59 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
Sorry Gang, last time I saw a previously free website asking for donations, they were offline and outta business 2 months later. I'll just have to find another free news source for the motorcycling info. You should at least try to boost the ad revenue before soliciting donations.

See all later, I gotta change my homepage to

later Dudes...

Eric 03-05-2001 06:06 PM

Re: You are NOT the man who would give his life for his brot
I agree with you Gabe. I plan to donate soon (got to get the card from the wife).

In addition, isn't motorcyclenews supported by a print version? Also, I haven't been able to get on to their site for a few days.

Anyway, I appreciate MO. One thing I like about MO is the ability to search the archives. A lot easier than trying to search through my less than complete print mag collection.

One thing MO -- more touring the world stuff. Or take reader submissions. My wife and I are planning a nice ride from VA to Milwauke (to see family friends, not the HD engine factory). On the way back to VA, we'll be taking in (among other places) South Dakota, Wyoming, Colorado, NM and TX. I would be happy to send MO a report...

starvingstudent 03-05-2001 06:10 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex

Thanks for acknowledging the importance of broke student riders. My status as such has been what's kept me from saying I'll pay for the site, but I'm thinking a bit more about it. You _are_ the best online motorcycle site, especially for someone who doesn't like the sportbike-only focus of MCN or Bikenet. And $12/year isn't too much, though it is 10 gallons of gas, which on my current bike equals 500-600 miles of quality canyon riding. And that's nothing to sneeze at either.

I'm not going to donate money, because I can't really afford to spend cash unless I have to. But I'm beginning to think that I _might_ pay when you switch over to a full pay site. We'll see.

Furthermore, will there be a password system for accessing my account when I'm at a computer that doesn't have the cookie? There's also a slight problem with your current system--I've forgotten my password, but when I get the verification code to get a new password, I can't figure out what to do with it. Am I just being dumb or is this system broken? I'm not the most literate with computers, so I could just be doing things the wrong way.

Starving Student

blip 03-05-2001 06:13 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
I thought the letter above was pretty clear, we've been profitable for five years -- the only web site anywhere to do that -- and revenues should be up this year. So we're not going anywhere. The problem is we're not growing fast enough, and need revenues to hire more editorial talent.

starvingstudent 03-05-2001 06:21 PM

Another problem
Whenever I try to change my password on my account config page, I click on "save changes" and I get the message "The contains no data. Try again later, or contact the server's administrator." Well, I guess this is contacting the server's administrator. Is this a problem with my computer or your system? (I'm a medieval historian, not a comp sci major!)

Starving Student

davidcorr 03-05-2001 06:44 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
bounced again.

same as guy above.

was ready to donate $50. happened with the amazon effort.

once again, don't make it hard for me to do business with you!!!

come on, i'm trying!!!

get this donation mechanism up and running.

you're running out of goodwill.

gort9 03-05-2001 06:49 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
Looks like another .com fading out...

vnsfxr 03-05-2001 07:11 PM

Re: You are NOT the man who would give his life for his brot
I'm with you Gabe. I just donated $23.94 for a two year subscription to Cycle World and will gladly do the same for MO if I could get the grovel site to load.

Ruche 03-05-2001 08:21 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
I already made a donation through Amazon, and noticed that you guys only mentioned how you would keep track of those who donate through your new donation page.

Just wanted to make sure that if you do go paysite, I don't get left behind...

Keep the articles comming

darkspy 03-05-2001 08:28 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
How ignorant can you be? Don't you read ANYTHING they are saying? They are making money!!!!! They just need more for growth!!!!! Growth is expected!!!!! They aren't in the red right now, so they won't be fading away in 2 months. Or in two years. It takes more than that to kill the largest motorcycle site on the web.


ERUPTION 03-05-2001 08:38 PM

I'm sorry. I can't bring myself to do it. I pay plenty of money for internet stuff, and you have too much competition (whether you know it or not).

How about this for an idea....

Why don't you do it backwards? Have a Print Medium in support of the Internet Magazine!

Ok. Think about it. You are supposed to be unique & special. Why not show the world how it can be done?

TV stations & newspapers have web sites that support their viewers/circulation. Those sites are jammed with ads. I know for a fact that those ads cost people money, but usually in conjunction with advertising purchases on the airwaves, radio, etc.

Websites shine for TV outlets. Information is provided interactively. Especially weather pages: "How close is that tornado?!"

Initial ideas are to be small at first (of course). Just several pages, much like Honda's Red Rider. Since you have already complained about "ad people" not wanting to invest in the "volitile internet", why not give them what they want?

Hire a sales person. Print a small publication with ads. Let the tangible print circulation make the advertisers happy. Supplement the website with similar ads, but keep the web honest.

Your circulation can just be the LA area. Maybe you can also mail to members. Possibly even circulate like a "direct mail" campaign, or just have a signup page. That's just for starters. How many issues do you think you could move? If the number is mighty big, then you are sitting on a gold mine.

It will be a first, but in your case - if you stay sensible - you will succeed very well.

It belittles your ability/credibility to ask for handouts.

MrDeadeye 03-06-2001 12:49 AM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
From what I read a few weeks ago, I got the impression that you would be going belly up without an influx of cash. Now you say you will be profitable anyway, you just want extra money to hire more writers and make it better.

If you are going to be profitable anyway even if you don't go to a pay site ................... your conversion to a pay site is a bigger and more stupid gamble than I thought. You got some XXL balls. Good luck!

suzukis-suck 03-06-2001 02:00 AM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
Read carefully!

Why is it soooo hard to understand the most of us DO NOT think that MO offers content worth paying for! I have subscribed to Roadracing World for years and there is no comparison in content offered and they charge $17.95.

There are a number of sites that are free out there. Don't expect us to shoot ourselves in the foot just because you want to!

Good luck to you Brent. If you have to shut it down then you didn't do things quite right and you'll get'em next time.

dirtybmxr 03-06-2001 03:49 AM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
I fully intend to contribute to MO's survival as a "pay-site". However, I have a problem with the reliance of the current system on cookies. I check MO from many different computers. Can I log on or do I rely on my main computer only for access?

I know you guys are pretty tech-savvy, but I am not, and what's more, I am still having very bad experiences from the customer service perspective with online purchases (at other sites). They are too impersonal, and when something goes wrong you have to rely on some e-mail hyperlink to send your problem to the right place. You might as well chant a voodoo encantation . . . Without snail-mail adresses and phone numbers, in my opinion, companies are still unable to provide adequate service, and that is what it takes to get me as a customer.

ps - I am considering an LCD monitor hung on my bathroom wall to take care of the other gripe I have with internet publications : )

richardr6 03-06-2001 04:33 AM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
Here is the thing minnime or blip. How much do we need to pay? I pay $12 dollars a year for a motorcyclist magazine now. I wouldn't mind donating a little but we need to know how much. What are the perps of being a person that pays versus one that doesn't? To me, people that are ask to donate more than a magazine price, are not going to be able support the MO site alone. How about asking for money thru the mail? I get a bill from my magazine, thru the mail, I write a personal check and it is done! I like that! We (the people that pay) need to have perps versus the one that don't pay. The thing is, there needs to be a set amount, it needs to be fair. If you guys need help now, you will need it later. So, go ahead and set a standard fee now. I would like to billed thru the mail, and I assume others would like that to. Those that want to pay online, thats fine. Just a suggestion. Get the people used to paying a amount and it will not be such a "shock" to the system when you guys come online and ask for "donations". Good luck and I would like to be billed thru the mail if possible richardcbr (I am logged in and it has me as a squid?)

speed3 03-06-2001 06:00 AM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex(Quit the whining!)
I have never heard a bigger bunch of whiners in my life. So many are about the possibility of having to pay a dollar a month for a magazine that is easily as good or better than Cycle World or Motorcyclist. I have searched many other sites and none have as many cool reviews or breaking info on new bikes as this site.I think the whiny little boys need to wake up and realize what they are getting and have been getting for years. It is pathetic that many are begrudging these guys a living. I for one would like a bigger, better mag that would be possible with more writers and reviewers. Count me in and keep up the good work!

Fallen 03-06-2001 06:15 AM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
OK. You got be to donate. I've enjoyed reading MO for 3+ years and the content is refreshing compared to any of the print mags. But, now that you have my money I get to start demanding things.

First, how about saving news preferences so that it displays comments as nested instead of the default threaded when I view the article, instead of having to refresh the page.

Second, I would like to see some more product comparisons tests (tires, pipes and that sort of stuff). Not everyone is looking for a new bike, but most of us go through lots of tires and that info is hard to find.

Well, thatÂ’s my list of demands for now. Good luck on the donation plans.

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