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blip 03-06-2001 08:33 PM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
How could someone possibly get your credit card from Motorcycle.Com? The transaction uses 128-bit keys, virtually unbreakable unless you're a .gov with MP machines, or have the power of Seti@Home or So they're not going to get it there.

We don't record the credit card number here. So they can't get it here.

Where, then, is the security problem?

Answer: it's in sites that store your credit card and have employees that have access to them. That wouldn't be MO.

Gabe 03-06-2001 08:52 PM

Not a bad idea...
I have studied non-profits a bit, and the 501(c)(3) does have its advantages. But you can never make a zillion bucks off of it. Or any bucks at all.

Here are the pros-

-Zero taxes (except payroll, of course)

-Oppurtunity to own property without local tax liability

-Air of legitimacy that profiting enterprises lack

But there;s negatives, as well:

-Increased scrutiny from the IRS and FTB

-Necessity of establishing a "beneficial purpose" for existance. (I would claim church status- I get down on my knees every Sunday!)

-Profits must be put back into corporation.

-Organization is controlled by volunteer board of directors.

With the above in mind, and other considerations I'm sure I haven't thought of, MO probably wouldn't like the 501c3 model. I wish ALL businesses were worker-owned and non-profit, but it's clear that we, as a society, don't like that. (Just wait till you see the flames that last sentance will generate!)

That's why the tax laws are set up to discourage investment and formation of non-traditional 501(c)3's. Don't want anybody using the establishment's loopholes to alter the status quo, do we!

Janet 03-06-2001 08:56 PM

What you are competing with ...
Motorcycle News is the weekly (print) newspaper for motorcyclists in the UK. They have had an adequate (free) Website for some time. Recently, much to my surprise, they posted their first test on the Yamaha Fazer (FZ-1) a day before the printed copy of the paper hit the shops. It was undoubtedly the first test I saw anywhere of the Fazer and it was free.

This seemed to be a slight departure from their normal approach, as important tests usually follow the print edition by a day or two - and it's not hard, from a commercial viewpoint, to see why.

However, they are now on the verge of launching a new and better (and presumably still free) Website, see:

OK - perhaps they will ultimately move to pay-to-view, but that doesn't look to be the intention yet.

simie7 03-07-2001 01:50 AM

Re: What you are competing with ...
Although I believe it is fare to have to contribute to

something we believe in such as Personally coming from England I have stayed loyal to Motorcycle News and for quite some time now I have also been access their website, which is updated daily. To be realistic, especially with the release of their new website, I will tend to stick with them rather than contribute to I tend to follow European and British trends because they are on the ball when it comes to motorcycling. Its big business over there.

baker 03-07-2001 01:55 AM

Re: What you are competing with ...
Cool, if MCN had all that stuff it would be great.

Another thing MO (and most motorcycling publications) make loads of money from payoffs from bike, tyre, etc manufactures to give them favorable reviews. When you log onto a manufactures website for example, you don't have to pay or donate. They review their own products and say how great they are, as they are entitled to do so, but I'm not going to pay someone to give me this informationÂ…

Mr_CBR 03-07-2001 02:44 AM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex

Thanks for responding to my comment yesterday after reading your response and rereading the article I can understand your

frustration with some of the comments such as mine. When I first read the article I scanned through that section about the more specialized web sites and came to the wrong conclusion. I didn't realize that I was in the most vocal minority demographic, I had always made the assumption, that the vast majority of readers shared my passion for racing and news. I guess we all know what happens when we assume.

On a second note one of the biggest problems with asking for donations is that people would like to know where the current money is going. As a treasurer for my local church, we need to ask for donations on a yearly basis (at least you have ad revenue) and the first question we are invariably asked is: "where is the money going?" In your article you state that you receive $1 million in revenue and only have three full time staff members. The first thought that goes through my mind is: "damn, someone is making a lot of money off this!" Although I understand that $1 million is not a huge amount of money to run a business (our church budget is $500K and we only have two full time staff and neither of them are raking in the $'s) I don't think that most other people understand this. It might be helpful if you could show how the money is spent. If the readers could be reassured that their donations are not being used to supplement the Brent P. wants a larger salary fund then donations may come in a a greater rate. There would be no need to show the books in detail, but a quick overview such as:

Staff Salaries Full time- $

Staff Salaries Part time- $

Taxes - $

Office Space/Supplies - $

Computer Infrastructure - $

MC Test Expenses - $

This way people could really see that $1 million does not go a long way in this world. The only problem might be if it showed that staff

salaries were the largest chunk of expenses, i.e. over 50% then it would probably hurt donations since the thought would probably be to use some of the salary (the assumption would be that yours in the largest) to fund expansion.

You have a good site and I would like for you to be able to maintain it as free, but I don't begrudge you the chance to earn what you can in our capitalist society.

Good luck no matter what your future course is.

motorcyclerider 03-07-2001 03:47 AM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
To all at MO, it's simple, as soon as you go to full "Pay", yearly subscription, I will join up. I don't like the "hit-miss" of this donation idea, JMHO.

Your a business, not a chairity organization, if you feel you've got a good service and it's worth upgrading, then make it "Pay" and the faithful will fork up the fee. Till then I'm not donating.

BJ Ondo

80 GS 1100E


oldjapbikes 03-07-2001 03:56 AM

Re: used bike archive
yes! used bike info! I know the knew stuff is cool but i can't stomach riding around with over $8000 under my butt, knowing i'll probably do something stupid and wreck it in an instant. one of the print mags did a used-bike buyers guide on CBR900RR's and ZX-9R's, and I just ate that up. What would be REALLY nice is a used 600 article summarizing 600's all the way back to 1989 when the first Honda Hurricane 600's came out.

Lastly, with this cool automated setup you have, why not created a used bike review archive? My screenname comes from the bikes that my family and I got into motorcycling with, 1980 vintage Kawasakis, Hondas, and Yamahas (nevermind that my current bike is a '92 ZX-6). These bikes all can be had for under $800 and are a great way for beginners to get started. I know it would have to be moderated/edited, but why not get a few trusted MO readers to do that?

MC 03-07-2001 03:57 AM

Re: Donate Now, Or Pay Later, Part Duex
How does that solve the multiple machine issue?

Or the multiple browsers/same machine issue?

I clear out my cookies on a semi-regular basis as well. No use fretting about this, people do it, it is going to happen. You should probably assume that *everyone* does it to be on the safe side. Basically, don't rely on cookies for anything.

I haven't seen all of your posts on this matter, but is it not possible for you, with your current web architecture, to tie whatever info is in the cookie to a login in your database?

I do this kind of stuff all day every day. I develop big web based database driven apps, but mostly on the evil Microsoft platform. I don't know if there is anything I can do to help but I'd be glad to try.


- MC

d1976 03-07-2001 04:06 AM

Re: Another problem
Well, maybe I could answer your question. Lets see... When I was in College, a good used car cost about $2000 and got about 25mpg at best. I got a used Honda CM200t (Twinstar) in perfect shape for FREE and put about $100 worth of necessary repairs into it. It got about 70mpg and went 75mph. Insurance on the car would have been (at that age) about $500 a year in my dad's name. The bike was about $100 A year in my name. I needed to go to work and school, but couldn't afford a car. The bike saved me one he** of a bunch of money. Besides, I sold the bike two years later for $300. Zero cost transportation! Not everybody is riding/racing a 2001 CBR 1100! Some people, like me, use cheap bikes as commuter workhorses.

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