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Old 03-01-2001, 06:26 AM   #21
FJTony
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Default Re: New AMA Initiative Against Cars

I agree! I also drive the same Route(57 in So. Cal) everyday and I always give the same 5 finger WAVE to people as they give me space to pass. Maybe there is something to this, because everyday it seems that there are more and more people that give me the much appreciated space to get pass them and, Thank God, I have not had the misfortune of dealing with these drivers that are out to get you--- actually I take that back, there was one incident where I had passed a car in stop and go traffic. One vehicle that I had passed, a little truck, appeared to dislike the fact that I could get by so easily. He sped up to stay right next to me, not realizing that the traffic was in a STOP cycle. I'm not sure what had happened, but I remember seeing in my rear view mirror and hearing his truck skidding. For the most part, I still believe that being courteous as other motorist let us pass can be nothing but good.
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Old 03-01-2001, 07:01 AM   #22
Durandel
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Default First Posts?

Give me a break! First Post ranting and raving happens everywhere! Its a part of the internet forum culture.



http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/things/3625.html



Learn to love it, or set your thresholds higher.

Please stop deleting them because a few people cant figure that out.



Oh yea.. and join the AMA!
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Old 03-01-2001, 07:21 AM   #23
n_v_no_1
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Default Re: New AMA Initiative Against Cars

Too much legislation is already in place. We already have laws "protecting the innocent" against dangerous drivers. How is it different when a car hits a motorcyclist and causes serious injury rather than a car hitting another car. Any malicious intent is simply that. If the intent is provable than the motorist, cyclist, trucker, what have you, is subject to the law. Carelessness is commonplace. Sure, motorists (at least the non-cyclist motorists) will never fully appreciate the position of the cyclist and therefore won't be as responsive or attentive to the cyclist. Cycle awareness works, but only for those interested in learning, or those with attention spans longer than 2 minutes. Specific legislation towards motorists that cause injury to cyclist is futile. Vehicular Manslaughter, Reckless Operation, Attempted Murder...legislation in place that already covers what the AMA is trying to take up more of your money treating politicians, lobbyists, and others to dinners, trips, and special treatments just so they can say they helped put another cyclist protective law on the books. The AMA is a great organization, but to waste time and money (not only AMA dues, but also your tax dollars with wasting politicians time) on this effort is redundent.
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Old 03-01-2001, 07:33 AM   #24
n_v_no_1
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Default Re: New AMA Initiative Against Cars

Too much legislation is already in place. We already have laws "protecting the innocent" against dangerous drivers. How is it different when a car hits a motorcyclist and causes serious injury rather than a car hitting another car. Any malicious intent is simply that. If the intent is provable than the motorist, cyclist, trucker, what have you, is subject to the law. Carelessness is commonplace. Sure, motorists (at least the non-cyclist motorists) will never fully appreciate the position of the cyclist and therefore won't be as responsive or attentive to the cyclist. Cycle awareness works, but only for those interested in learning, or those with attention spans longer than 2 minutes. Specific legislation towards motorists that cause injury to cyclist is futile. Vehicular Manslaughter, Reckless Operation, Attempted Murder...legislation in place that already covers what the AMA is trying to take up more of your money treating politicians, lobbyists, and others to dinners, trips, and special treatments just so they can say they helped put another cyclist protective law on the books. The AMA is a great organization, but to waste time and money (not only AMA dues, but also your tax dollars with wasting politicians time) on this effort is redundent.
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Old 03-01-2001, 07:36 AM   #25
n_v_no_1
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Default Re: New AMA Initiative Against Cars

hamatsu,



I think I replied to you specifically, but I meant to post it on the board...sorry, new user here. anyway, just wanted to clarify.
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Old 03-01-2001, 09:20 AM   #26
LimeSqueezr
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Default I agree it's like gun control and hate crime laws...

There are already plenty of laws in place to punish people who commit crimes with guns. What we don't have is enough enforcement of those laws, and too much sentencing leniency when they do manage to get enforced. We don't need more laws that infringe on the rights of law-abiding people to engage in perfectly legal sports and other activities that may involve firearms.



As for hate crime laws, how on earth is more legislation going to stop somebody willing to commit a crime already punishable by DEATH!? You always see politicians grabbing news media soundbytes to endorse hate crime laws after some unfortunate minority person was murdered in a horrible crime we are all outraged about --but it happened in a state where there's already capital punishment for what was done! So what would a hate crime law do? Give them TWO lethal injections, or what???



The same is true in this case. A LOT more cage drivers who kill motorcyclists do it because they're simply drunk not because they're in a fit of road rage. And every state in the union has pretty darn tough drunk driving laws now. The only thing that's going to help is better enforcement of those laws AND motorcyclists themselves learning to ride defensively and avoid those drunk and incompetent idiots as much as possible.







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Old 03-01-2001, 09:27 AM   #27
Alien
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Default Re: AMA Membership

Regarding your comment: "I am not and probably never will be a member of the AMA and I've been riding for over 20 years on the street."

I would think that if you want to continue riding for another 20 years then it might be worth ponying up. As one other poster said, they may have their flaws, but some representation is better than no representation, and the more members they have, the better they can represent us. I moved here from England 13 years ago (where I was a member of the Motorcycle Action Group, or MAG) and joined the AMA as soon as I have found them, and think that every biker should join them - more members = more money = more power!

I agree with you that this initiative (back on topic) could do with some improvements, but anything that makes these morons "think bike" has got to be good, even if it is the advertising and court time to try and push the legislation through rather then the legislation itself...

Just my opinion - I could be wrong!

Cheers,

Alien
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Old 03-01-2001, 09:54 AM   #28
CarsSuck
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Default More proof

that subconsciously they want to kill us. His natural save-his-ass reaction is that "he didn't see you", but obviously he did see you, and doesn't know why he didn't stop. I believe most people who say "I didn't see you" are lying, and know they saw you but aren't sure why they didn't yield. They are being controlled by their subconscious before they realize it. I wish they would think about what that guy in the SUV that they don't hate, or even what they themselves in their own SUVs, could do to one of their loved ones--and then consider what a motorcycle WOULDN'T do to one of their loved ones in a traffic accident. I think their hatred of us stems from a denial of their own irresponsibility in driving a cage, and a resentment of the fact that we don't present that irresponsibility with OTHER peoples' lives, and we are obviously having more fun at the same time we're more socially responsible citizens. Part of this denial is their assumption that our motorcycles are just toys, like our individual motivations should really make a difference to them. People get mad when we lanesplit, even just at a red light. Why? We're not slowing them down any... because they resent that we can do it and they can't. Simple, petty mouth-breather jealousy. They have this kindergarten concept of fairness, that everyone should have the same regardless of their needs or abilities. Funny that this concept never seems to get in the way of their capitolism though.
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Old 03-01-2001, 10:07 AM   #29
Abe_Froman
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Default Alas, I am not alone----

I had to wade through 20 comments before finally coming to someone who has similar reservations about the effectiveness, as well as the appropriateness of these proposed laws. I guess it would seem that, for all of the "government, leave me alone" posturing that has gone on in other political discussions here, it appears motorcyclists are still willing to chuck their liberty-loving image to the wind and seek legislation that would impose different rules on different people.



I have yet to encounter the driver who maliciously puts the cyclist in danger. I don't mean to dismiss the seriousness of those situations for those that have experienced them, but I suspect that it's far rarer than most cyclist would like to admit. Most cagers are simply not paying attention, and having never driven a motorcycle, cannot empathize with our situation. I do not believe that a driver should be criminally charged, or charged beyond the normal scope of the law, for what was simply an accident, no matter how severe. If an automobile operator showed clear contempt for the safety of a cyclist, and it can be proven in a court of law, then there are already laws on the books to deal with that. I just joined the AMA a month ago, and I am sorry to see them pursue a line of thought akin to gun legislation and hate crimes that are so futile as well. Why is the life of the car driver who is killed by a left-turning truck worth any less than the motorcyclist killed in the same situation?



One caveat: I am tired of the discussion of motorcyclists that "give us a bad name." Though I wear a helmet, gloves, an armored jacket and I've never dragged a knee, I know that there are drivers on the road that resent my speed and manueverability. Even if I am riding well within my limits, I am still "giving us a bad name." I think the definition of that phrase is much different between car drivers and cyclists. For automobile drivers, that threshold is much lower, and we would have to stay within the limits of every rule of the road to prevent them from forming that opinion of us. The people who will decide that we are all hooligans probably cannot drive their own car very well either. It's a fact we are going to have to put up with.
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Old 03-01-2001, 10:13 AM   #30
CarsSuck
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Default you could be correct, but I don't think you are

I agree with the concept of what you're saying, but the reality is that judges let people go with next to nothing. Some guy's leg gets smashed, his bike totalled, he suffers--and the guy who runs the red light DOESN'T EVEN GET THE FULL TICKET FOR RUNNING THE RED LIGHT--he gets his charge reduced to "faulty equipment". This is common. If you don't realize how common this is, that's good, because it means you don't get hit a lot. The court almost always assumes that there is no malicious intent or gross recklessness on the part of the car driver because the other party is a motorcyclist, and well, they're just so hard to see because there's only one headlight instead of two. I'm all for any intent to make the cage murderers pay, even if it doesn't work. I'm happy to see a major public-pandering organization like the AMA simply admit that there is a problem with the car drivers, and it is not just a problem of inattentiveness. I didn't see I'd think anyone even try to push laws like this, so I'm glad. It's too bad we need laws to send messages to judges to enforce the ones we already have, but apparently we do. Courts have been sending a message for a long time now that it's ok to hit motorcyclists. Some sort of counteractive measure has to be taken? I hate legislation, but if that's what we have to work with then fine.
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