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Old 02-27-2001, 01:41 PM   #11
jby
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Default Re: Donate Today or Pay Tomorrow

I have just one question. What happens to the people who did donate, when you do go to a pay only site? Do they have to pony up another $12 for a subscribtion?
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Old 02-27-2001, 01:49 PM   #12
MrDeadeye
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Default The longer you stay away from pay, the better

Well, I hope this charity program through Amazon works out for you guys. Going to a pay site is a dead end. You will be F*cked if you start charging unless you can convince every other bike news web site in the world to start charging all at once. Like I said in a previous post..... I wonder what the other motorcycle sites will do with your reader traffic.


You should look into selling MO gear. Hats, patches, stickers, t-shirts.... you know riders love that stuff. If you have such a huge readership, but the adverstising dollars still are not flowing. Sell your name on gear ...... the secret of Harley Davidson's success !



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Old 02-27-2001, 01:51 PM   #13
desertbilly
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Default Re: Donate Today or Pay Tomorrow

Okay, I'm in. I'm all for more staff = more content; and I support the concept of you guys making a decent living.



It's pretty cool that Amazon offers this service -- quick and easy, using my existing account with an organization I trust. I hope they're not taking too big a percentage.







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Old 02-27-2001, 02:08 PM   #14
ujm4ever
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Default Re: Donate Today or Pay Tomorrow

All you folks that think the internet will remain "free" as we know it today are a bunch of wishful thinkers. The current model is broken and the tools to support "subscription packages" and "pay as you use" are on the way. The big ISPs will deploy these tools as soon as the tools are ready. Your "connection" fee may go down but your user fees will go up. I see it as being something of a cross between your old long distance phone bill and your cable or satellite TV bill. Quality content cost money to create and banner adds are not delivering the revenue support. If you enjoy MO send them a few bucks.

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Old 02-27-2001, 02:11 PM   #15
Calamari
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Default Re: Donate Today or Pay Tomorrow

jby just saved me some typeing.

I'll pay once but just once. (A year)
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Old 02-27-2001, 02:15 PM   #16
darkspy
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Default Catch 22?

To all you who predict (it's not the valid truth now, just a prediction) that MO would die if they went subscription based, I have something to say. I'm no expert, but it seems to me that if MO doesn't start making some serious money they will die anyways. You think a subscription model will kill them? From what I gather, NOT having one will kill them too. It's a Catch 22 and frankly MO may have no choice.



I've been mooching off their free content long enough and I'd probably pay up to continue to receive. I should mention I'm a working college student. I think if I somebody in my position can afford it, so can the majority of MO readers. I also get Motorcyclist magazine, but I like MO in addition. Brent did say in his first post that MO would get larger and better if they received enough support. You wouldn't be paying for MO as we know it, but for a larger, better, more intensified MO. I think I'd be worth the relatively puny amount each person would put in. No, I don't work at MO. I just support what they are trying to do. Feel free to flame me if you hate what I say. I can handle it



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Old 02-27-2001, 02:20 PM   #17
blip
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Default Re: Donate Today or Pay Tomorrow

The short answer:



We track individual computers that read MO (not IP addresses). 4.5 million of them last year. While we don't have your name tied to your anonymous_mo_id here, we do know everything that everyone read. From there, based on our registration systems in the classifieds and in the new news.mo, we know the ratio of individuals/computers logged in from. It's roughly 2.3 computers/person. That's between home, work, new computers/browsers, everyone that reads us changes uses an average of 2.3 computers per year.



Anyway, our tracking system (a modified Apache usertrack-style system that records you MO user id and the apache usertrack cookie in one common log file) reads it all into a SQL database and spits out, based on custom queries we wrote, the total number of actual invidivual people that have read us for the period measured.



Last month I imported an ran the whole year 2000, which took a long time! That's how we figured it out.



This whole system took a long time to write and figure out, it's the backed stuff that we also needed to to transparently adaptive content for users, as well as targeted advertising.



Obvioulsy, I wanted to know exactly how many people really read us (there's always been so much BS out there it makes me sick!) before considering going to a fee site.



Now we know, and even if we only retain 15% of our readers, at $11.94 per year, the revenues are still pretty decent. Not enough were we'll all be retiring to an island (who's want to? you can't rent racetracks on islands!) but enough to where I won't have to work every day, at least.
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Old 02-27-2001, 02:23 PM   #18
NCRC51
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Default Re: Catch 22?

Pay for print and surf for free. Just don't think enough people will pay for it to work. But I wish you best of luck.
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Old 02-27-2001, 02:32 PM   #19
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Default Re: Donate Today or Pay Tomorrow

I agree, and have ponied up as well...
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Old 02-27-2001, 02:33 PM   #20
blip
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Default Re: Donate Today or Pay Tomorrow

The "sole exception of product reviews (bikes and gear), there is NOTHING..."



Those bikes/product reviews are 90% of our traffic (and we're bigger than all the other content sites combined), and no other web site can get access to the test fleets from the OEMs. Where will you go for your Open Sportbike Shootout? Open Twins? No where, not now at least.



And no one can debate that we don't beat the print magazines by considerable time spans, and many people pay for them. Would 2.0 million people per year subscribe to the largest print mag if it was free? Sure. But only a small percentage of that number are willing to pay for it.



So it will be with MO. But even retaining 15% of our readers will mean significantly more revenues to improve the site, so it'll be that much better, that much more of a reason to subscribe.



Free content sites will be all gone within two years. MO, founding in April, 1994, was the first commercial magazine online, we will be the first large-scale "lifestyle" magazine to be successful in a fee model.



As I said above, I don't mind losing the 85% of readers who won't pay. Many will eventually come around. The internet is boring, and I, for one, make heavy use of the the two other sites that I've paid yearly fees for. The content is better, I trust it, and I don't have time to read or search through Billy Joe Bob's Reviews, or the zillions of other individual web sites in the genres that interest me. I like quality content, and like paying for it. One neat thing about one of sites that I paid for is that the editors there actually had time to respond to my e-mailed question -- one response from one site saved me significant time and money, so I'll probably always pay the yearly fee there (and it's about $60/year), as long as the content remains good. So it will be with MO, we'll work on more content and helping our readers. Building trust, community and a place for people to be involved is the future of the Web, and MO.
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