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m_t_yeo 03-17-2006 07:10 PM

Re: You heard that where?
"Does it matter? Alonso has no aspirations to go to MotoGP."

For the purposes of this challenge, it sure does. Alonso said he could put a bike on the podium. Seeing as Rossi has driven an F1 car reasonably well and Alonso has yet to touch or ride a MotoGP bike, he is just talking out of his butt until he sets foot on a track somewhere and gives it a whirl.

Brent_Meeker 03-17-2006 08:24 PM

Re: Rossi Issues Triple-Challenge to Alonso.
We actually have a data point on comparing F1 and MotoGP - albeit from an earlier era. John Surtees was world champion on MV Augusta and Ferrari. He said that you had to be a lot smoother with the bike. The car you could kind of throw around.

A few years ago a reporter at a Canadian road race went around the pits asking riders if they would like to switch to racing cars. One said, "I think cars are easier. You don't fall down." Another said, "Sure, car racers get paid a lot more." When he came to Steve Crevier and asked him, Steve just gave him a long incredulous look and said, "My MOTHER drives a car."

m_t_yeo 03-18-2006 12:08 AM

Re: You heard that where?
Here is the Wikipedia entry ...

"Rossi tested the Ferrari in 2006 on January 31, February 1, and February 2 at Valencia. The first day saw Rossi spin out on the damp track into the gravel trap ending his day. On the second day, he posted the ninth fastest time of fifteen drivers, approximately one second behind Schumacher, who himself was third fastest. Rossi lapped faster than seasoned drivers Mark Webber, David Coulthard and Jarno Trulli [2]. On the final day of testing, Rossi was a half second behind Schumacher's best time [3]. Schumacher hailed Rossi as having immense talent and said he's perfectly capable of moving to Formula One and being competitive immediately."

pdad13 03-18-2006 02:26 AM

Re: You heard that where?
I don't know how dry weights are relevant. The F1 rules say 600kg with driver, 605kg for qualifying. I never argued the power-to-weight thing, only that you seem to be intentionally misleading by describing MGP bikes as 200 lbs. and F1 cars as 900 lbs.

You seem to ignore your assertions that have come under question, for instance, that Rossi somehow had an advantage at the last test because he was driving an older-spec V-10 car, when there is at least some evidence to conclude that he was actually in a less competitive car.

You've also maintained that Rossi spun out the first time he was in an F1 car, which is not true, and then went on to characterize that test as a failure, when he actually lapped better than many F1 vets by the end of the test.

And yes, GP bikes have rider aids, too. This is because, as with F1 cars, their performance has become such that it would be very difficult to ride them at a competitive pace safely. But you're still dealing with two wheels and extreme lean angles. Traction control on GP bikes also allows a good amount of wheelspin. MGP riders just don't let the TC hook up and cruise through the corner. It's a very delicate balancing act even with the assistance. I'm sure that it's still tricky in F1, but there is littlle chance that an F1 driver will highside himself to the moon. And slipper clutches don't eliminate the need for the rider to control them, either. Watch Rossi fire off dowshifts while still manipulating the clutch.

Let's see Alonso on an old 500cc two-stroke.

You want another F1 driver aid? Launch control. At one of the most critical parts of the race, the car launches itself. And being that there is little passing in F1 (and I hope that changes this year, because I am a fan), that's pretty criitical.

Let's also not ignore the fact that a MGP rider exposes himself to a much higher risk of physical harm. You think Alonso isn't going to be thinking about that when he tips into the first corner? Agreed that F1 30 or 40 years ago was really dangerous, and the cars were,no doubt, evil machines (and the tracks death traps) but that's not the case anymore. Both F1 and GP racing have gotten much safer, but on bikes there is little protection.

Sure, some of us could put around on an MGP bike, but that's a far cry from riding at a high level. And it's only because we've been riding high performance bikes for some years. Does anyone know if Alonso has ever ridden a bike? If he doesn't have much experience, he's more than likely deliusional.

This challenge will probably never happen, but I'd love to see it.

As far as getting out of pit lane in an F1 car, you're probably right. But I'd much prefer stalling or spinning an F1 car to falling off a GP bike. I bet Alonso would agree.

pdad13 03-18-2006 02:39 AM

My bad, I misread original. You did not, in fact, say that GP bikes weigh 200 lbs. You also did not mention weight as part of your original post. I misread HP as LB. Don't know why. Maybe I'm just exhausted.

As far as the spec of the car Rossi was testing in, there seems to be conflicting reports. I've read at least two reports that said it was an detuned-V-10 and one other that says it's not clear what he was driving. Fact is, he still was faster than a number of other guys no matter what he was driving.

That is all.

bigdx 03-18-2006 03:56 AM

Re: You heard that where?
When you read the articles you have to keep in mind that this is a PR stunt, and read in the context of such. Of course the responses are going to be rose colored.

"The 26-year-old Rossi spun the car several times in the early wet conditions in Valencia but improved as the track dried out" and "The five-times MotoGP champion was 12th fastest of 15 drivers on Thursday after being ninth quickest on Wednesday" from

No matter how positive a spin they put on it, I do not see this as somebody that is going to be a world champion beater. Yep, if he gets a good car maybe he can get a podium or two someday when he has some experience. Will he beat the likes of Alonso, Raikkonan and Button to take the championship? Nah, you need to be delusional to think that.

These folks have all competed on 4 wheels from a very you age, went through the ranks of motor racing and only started winning after a lot of F1 experience. You think Rossi is more talented then Schumacher? I doubt that.

bigdx 03-18-2006 04:11 AM

Re: You heard that where?
600kg includes driver weight, the 240 lb for bikes excludes the rider. The proper calculation for a bike (with 150 lb rider) is 320/470 = 1.958lb/hp for Motogp bikes.

So, no GP bikes do not win on this one. Not by a long shot. They accelarate slower, brake slower and corner slower than F1. A lot slower.

bigdx 03-18-2006 04:18 AM

Re: You heard that where?
"For the purposes of this challenge, it sure does."

What challenge? You still in third grade bud?

The only showdown (if it happens) will be in F1 cars. Alonso will kick Rossi's but into the next century

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