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Old 11-14-2005, 05:53 AM   #21
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Default Yes, no, maybe.

I bet that everyone that thinks this is a good idea is over 21. I am also but I have to wonder is it right to tell an adult what he can and can not ride? 18 is still a legal adult in the US. In a country where helmets are optional is it right to limit what an adult can or can not ride. I know that a LOT more EX500s, KLR 650s, Blasts, and GS500s should be selling. I think most of us also know that 600cc sports bikes ARE NOT good starter bikes. The question is should we make it a law? Some would say that riding any motorcycle is stupid and there are a LOT of people that would love to see all motorcycles outlawed.
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Old 11-14-2005, 06:46 AM   #22

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Default Re: Less power for bike riders to save young lives.

We use to have something like that in the good old US of A. It was called "common sense".
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Old 11-14-2005, 06:57 AM   #23
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Default Re: Less power for bike riders to save young lives.

How about the big green letter on white background "L" (for "learner") plates like in Blighty? At least we could beware of them until they get their act together. Wouldn't hurt to have flashing warning lights too.

I saw an Isle of Man TT rider with one on his bike as he zipped through town at 135 or so MPH during the race.
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Old 11-14-2005, 07:10 AM   #24
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Default Re: Great idea

So you went riding with sportbikebandit?
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Old 11-14-2005, 08:31 AM   #25
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Default Re: Yes, no, maybe.

A 600 cc sportbike ridden by a no-experience idiot 18 year old rider is a recipe for disaster. So is a handgun. So is a trampoline. So is a ski-boat. So is a skateboard. So is a pack of matches. I would argue the same is true for idiot 39 year old.

Where do we stop? Maybe outlaw 18-year olds? Seriously- If he can make his note and afford the insuarnce, who are we to keep him from ripping down the interstate .

I'd rather him rear-end me on a R-6 than in a Z-28.

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Old 11-14-2005, 09:35 AM   #26
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Default Re: Less power for bike riders to save young lives.

The idea sounds like it would make sense, restricting to 500cc or less for a first bike (or at least some level below a 600SS) would probably reduce deaths by some heretofore unknown amount but I surmise that it would have an effect on the moto market in a couple ways:

1) It would reduce the sales of motorcycles. Some noobs are just going to want to get on a high-powered new SS from the get-go or not do it at all. They might not bother if they have to start out on an EX500 and ride that for a year or two or three or whatever. I know I would have not been as keen on buying my first bike 9 years ago (at age 21, GSXR600) if I wasn't allowed the grown-up bike.

2) The US market would get those cool bikes that the Euro and Japanese traditionally get, like the old FZR400 and CBR250RR. As a club racer this would have me smacking my lips just thinking about the cool, lower-displacement sportbikes that the factories might design and market here. A new YZF-R4, with supersport-level brakes and suspension, instead of my SV650? Or an SV-RR? Yes please.

Despite all this I am still a libertarian and thus am violently opposed to the government keeping us safe from ourselves. Let all people everywhere bear the full cost of their choices, in every way, and perhaps this problem will solve itself without government intervention.
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Old 11-14-2005, 10:08 AM   #27
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Default Tedious

I know the legislation is premised on the basic notion that humans are morons, and giving some morons less power while other morons aren't restricted/hampered in any way sounds like a good idea - but, it's really not.

If the issue is poor drivers leading to motorcyclist deaths, then I am not sure how some power to weight ratio restriction on motorcycles will cure that situation.

If the issue is poor judgment/skills on the part of the motorcyclist then it seems to me you could have more required training, and require a certain amount of hours on a closed track before getting licensed to go on the road. The point is, if the "state" wants to be Big Brother, then it should do something sensible.

Anyway, let's say that I am a teenager and wanted to join the military and face impending death, and kill a lot of people - would legislators lose a lot of sleep about that? No, it's my choice ("duty") to get my leg blown off or kill some people that probably don't deserve death. So why lose so much sleep over the fact that there are plenty of riders who realize and accept the risk that go along with riding a bike (particularly when most of the risk is to the rider)?

I'll give in and say that "maybe" starting on a Moto GP bike is a bad idea, but let's be honest, we all know that no one should be on bike hoping that low power will compensate for awful skills, and risk aversion.
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Old 11-14-2005, 10:46 AM   #28
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Default Re: Less power for bike riders to save young lives.

I hear the arguements going back and forth but we are a nation of law not mob rule. Yes, when a person becomes 18 he or she is "legally" and adult. But we tell those "adults" that you may not have a beer until your 21. What's the difference between that and telling a newbie they need some experience before they can ride the lastest supersport bike. The arguement shouldn't be about living in a "free society" and doing as we wish. If that were the case then we'd have a whole bunch of uneducated teens doing as they will and making life hard for the rest. We are a nation of law. A republic sets limitaions on things for the good of the whole not the few. Our goal should be training. It is not followed through because states differ on the procedures on how the training is administered. So, those that can self-train- those that don't crash. If we encourage training and limit the tools (bikes) for the new the odds are that the fatalities will be reduced and the trained will encourage others to train as well. I hate "big gov't" as much as any rational person should. However, certain laws are there for the protection of those that cannot use reason and experience to not cause harm to the people he or she are surrounded by. And don't give me that "well his momma bought him a sprotscar" crap. His momma is paying "high" insurance premiums for that. You can buy a Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki and in some cases Honda on what is basically a revolving credit card account. Those punks buy bikes and only have to ride on liability coverage to make the state happy. It's like telling a 21yo "here's you first legal beer- go tell all you buddies."
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Old 11-14-2005, 01:58 PM   #29
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Default Re: Less power for bike riders to save young lives.

For the information of everyone with a limited chemistry education: one mL of water equals one cubic centimeter of water under standard conditions (or really any conditions so long as it is liquid). So you can measure the volume displaced in an engine in either unit and it is the same.
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Old 11-14-2005, 02:42 PM   #30
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Default Re: Less power for bike riders to save young lives.

In response to your first question, the difference is that you can't have a beer under 21, period....not you can only have a light beer.

The argument IS about freedom.

And regarding, "momma bought him a sport car", you're being pretty liberal here. Are you saying that you wouldn't take this position on bikes if they had "high" insurance premiums with maximum coverage, or just that you're fine with an inexperienced driver crashing a high-powered Vette and hurting someone else due to poor judgement because they had good insurance? You're straddling the fence.
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