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Old 12-28-2004, 10:17 AM   #41
sarnali
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Default Re: So how do you actually turn a motorcycle?

A bobber style would look good with a Triumph, you could almost do a Steve McQueen desert sled look.

I would run with Sportster buckhorns and a 5 inch headlight, no front fender, chopped rear fender and a solo seat, open TT pipes and paint it flat black. I'd try to fit the shortest shocks on the rear I could find, that way you won't be butchering the frame.

If you have to chop it, Santee used to make rigid frames for Triumph but I don't know if they're still in buisness. You're right to leave the Shovel stock or at least keep the stock frame and running gear.

Sounds like a fun project for the winter.
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Old 12-28-2004, 11:10 AM   #42
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Default Re: So how do you actually turn a motorcycle?

I do know someone that can ride darn near as fast with one hand (braking, shifting and all) as I can with two though . If course when he cheats and uses both hands, "He's Gone".
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Old 12-28-2004, 11:40 AM   #43
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Default the real source of confusion is...

that a motorcycle is steered DIFFERENTLY DEPENDING ON SPEED. at low speed (below 20 mph or so) you turn the bars INTO the turn and/or steer it with 'body english'. this is what gives all the body steering proponents their ammunition - they can ride around the parkinglot with their hands off the bars and perform turns without any difficulties. at this low speed counter-steering doesn't do much because gyroscopic effects are very small.



pick up the pace though and the scenario changes completely. gyroscopes take over and you MUST countersteer to get the bike to do anything but go straight. at 100mph body steering does absolutely NOTHING because the forces generated this way are irrelevant compared to the huge gyro force of rapidly spinning wheels.



so technically both camps are 'right' - which one you should be in depends on how fast you ride. bodysteering is for harleys, countersteering is for sportriders who actually use their bikes for sport riding.
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Old 12-28-2004, 12:11 PM   #44
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Default Re: So how do you actually turn a motorcycle?

Without getting into the epic discussions concerning Keith Code, let me say this about the No-BS bike:



It is total BS. Note that the normal bars are not held steady. Therefore, when you use the second bars to lean the bike, the geometry of the bike naturally counters your moves. If you were to have a lock button which forced the standard bars to stay fixed straight ahead, then body steering would work just fine, albeit inefficiently from a force-reaction perspective.



And I agree that I'd rather take the wheelie school.
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Old 12-28-2004, 12:58 PM   #45
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Default Re: So how do you actually turn a motorcycle?

I put a rigid rear end on a '70 Bonnie years ago and 5 x 16" rear tire. The front end was stock - no rake. It handled like hell!. Over 40mph the rear end bounced. I don't know what the deal was, but I had to put back to stock.



How's that 750 kit on the 650 lower end work?
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Old 12-28-2004, 01:05 PM   #46
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Default Re: So how do you actually turn a motorcycle?

Just go 6" over tubes on the Trumpet. That way when you get tired of it you haven't done any irreparable damage. Unlike those clowns that goosenecked all those panheads and knuckleheads and threw away the stock parts back in the 60s and 70s. Idiots.



Last time I checked an original condition knucklehead is worth something like 5 times what a chopper goes for.



Actually, choppers originally were simply Harleys that had as many bits removed as possible to reduce the weight. Bonnevilles came that way stock. There's nothing on it really to chop off. Maybe the little chrome luggage rack on the fuel tank. Although that would be cooler left on.



Leave the old Triumphs stock. They are arguably the most beautiful motorcycles ever made. Especially the pre-unit 650s.
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Old 12-28-2004, 03:04 PM   #47
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Default Re: So how do you actually turn a motorcycle?

The bars which are attached to the fork are free to move. What Keith is doing is making tools to help us understand what we are actually doing on a bike. We can all turn a bike, but the NoBS bike forced me to reconsider what parts of my technique were productive and, furthermore, what to do first if I need to turn in a hurry. I have ridden the thing and I can tell you it changed a lot of my assumptions about how to turn. More importantly I am now more efficient and faster.



I wonder if any of the skeptics on this thread have ridden the NoBS bike. I hope they get a chance.
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Old 12-28-2004, 03:40 PM   #48
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Default uhm, NO

if the normal bars were held steady the bike would not be able to turn, PERIOD. the trail is what lets you body-steer at low speed. if you don't believe me, go ahead and over-tighten the head bearing on your bike to where it locks and then see how far you can ride it.
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Old 12-28-2004, 05:01 PM   #49
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Default Re: So how do you actually turn a motorcycle?

750 kit works just fine. If you really want a killer Triumph, have the flywheels cut, head ported, 750 kit, Sifton cams, and Mikuni carbs and away you go!
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Old 12-28-2004, 06:30 PM   #50
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Default Re: So how do you actually turn a motorcycle?

Sorry, you are wrong. You can steer a bike without leaning at all. I can prove it anytime: Just attach a pair of training wheels to a bike so it doesn't lean at all. Turn the handelbar and the bike will steer.
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