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Old 08-14-2004, 08:13 PM   #41
Wambo
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Default Re: you should like this little video then ;)

Now we're talking!! SU-29? I don't know what the ****pit looks like from the inside but I recognize the wing and the performance! Way cool!
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Old 08-14-2004, 09:05 PM   #42
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Default Re: Could you be more specific?

I could con you out of that sheepskin for some cheap health insurance any day of the week.
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Old 08-15-2004, 06:30 AM   #43
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Default Re: R1 vs 911

I'm sorry Wambo, I was having a bad day, they took away my binky
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Old 08-15-2004, 06:32 AM   #44
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Default Re: R1 vs 911

Sorry kpaul, as I told Wambo, I was having a bad day, they took away my binky
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Old 08-15-2004, 07:30 AM   #45
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Default yep, good call!

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Old 08-15-2004, 08:51 AM   #46
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Default Re: Lap Times at Daytona

Having driven an M3 and ridden a Ducati ST4s over the same roads, I have to agree; I am much faster on a motorcycle.



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Old 08-15-2004, 09:01 AM   #47
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Default Re: R1 vs 911

>power to weight , etc., cars win.<



Put down the crack pipe. From many years of experience and reading road test, motorycles have far better power to weight ratios.



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Old 08-16-2004, 05:16 AM   #48
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Default Re: R1 vs 911

Neil is an accomplished rider with quite a resume. I donÂ’t want to get in too deep, but how about the tires? If the test was run on cold tires from a standing start, the bike would take a couple of laps to get up to operating temperature. Could that have something to do with the car passing in a corner so early in the test? Or at all? I wouldnÂ’t want to be going all out on cold tires (probably rolling the stock D207Â’s which are crap) or on street tires.
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Old 08-16-2004, 06:38 AM   #49
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Default Consider the source

This is Jeremy (Jezza!) Clarkson doing the narrating (go here with a bittorrent client for some recent episodes of the show heÂ’s currently presenting) and he is notoriously anti-motorcycle. ItÂ’s take a lot to convince me that the bike ever had any chance of success at allÂ….
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Old 08-16-2004, 07:18 AM   #50
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Default Re: R1 vs 911

Hmm as regards Fn becoming to great in a case of decreasing surface area...we're starting to get well outside my realm of practical understanding, but i have interpreted the graph not that Friction even as an approximation increases in a perfect world situation but that measured friction between surfaces has incresed simply because, as stated before, further deformation is possible and the greater surface area helps to average out anomolies and imperfections...



Again I could be completely wrong but I assumed the curve was the result of the tests becoming more accurate because greater surface area was more representative of the actual interaction between idealized surfaces. If I'm mistaken I would love to hear more.



As for the bike pivoting, I've been thinking about that a bit over the weekend...



Well first..I think perhaps you may have mixed two different interactions together. And it could just be a case of the way it came out in your paragraph.



When a car experiences a rollover, it is almost always (barring a blow or collision from another object that imparts a moment of force that causes the vehicle to rotate about is Z axis) when the center of gravity crosses outside the the support of whatever member is keeping it up. For instance a human being who leans until the area between their pelvis and belly-button has crossed past the outside edge of one of their feet will fall over unless they extend a hand to support them or move their feet.



Likewise a tall car with a higher center of gravity can lean far enough that the center of gravity crosses the outside boundry of the wheels and the car will roll.



Unless I'm misunderstanding you I'm not sure how that is related to tire friction and horizontal Gs.



But you could be entirely right about the bike lean creating better friciton. If I think about it, the leaned over bike presses MORE of the mass of the bike into the tires. If one assumes for simplicity's sake a 1 G turn, If the bike turned straight up and down we have one G of vertical force and one G of lateral force. That's stable except for the extra friction needed to actually accelerate the bike in a new direction. At that point the bike should break free and slide.



If however the bike is leaned over the 1 G of lateral force is now partially presseing the tires back into the pavement, giving us Approx 1.5 Gs of force between tire and road, and .5 Gs of lateral force, which should allow enough energy to keep the tires turning the bike.



So I think you probably have me there.



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