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fizzchem 04-18-2003 11:09 AM

Re: Windmills Tilted: 'Motorcyclist Mag is Plagiarist Mag'
Bob, if you buy a piece of property, land for example, it is yours until you die. Intellectual property has no such distinctions. Article 1 Section 8: Congress shall have the power... To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries.

Now it can be argued to what value his intellectual property has in selling a product, in this case a magazine. But that's what lawyers are for.

I contend that the assertion that it's a worse crime than taking a permanent piece of your property is dubious.

As for unsubstantiated allegations on an online website, I take them for what their worth, which is the point of the poster above.

BTW, Doris Kearns Goodwin was also accused of doing the same thing, methinks.

dardas 04-18-2003 11:20 AM

Re: Windmills Tilted: 'Motorcyclist Mag is Plagiarist Mag'
"Far be it from us ever to dish the dirt..." Kind of like apologizing for something before you dot it, no? Self absolution: There's nothing worse. (apart from murder, assault, and plagiarism, of course) ;-)

All kidding aside, that's terrible to hear. I hope he sues the pants off them. After that, he should really consider going into drama. He's a natural.

runner00 04-18-2003 11:40 AM

Re: Windmills Tilted: 'Motorcyclist Mag is Plagiarist Mag'
I agree ...there is a general disintegration

of personal ethics going on. It's a shame

because the end result is a world of deminishing quality of life. I for one refuse

to give in to it. I always thought that a course

in ethics at the high school level should be required. You have to start somewhere.

ducfast 04-18-2003 12:14 PM

Re: Windmills Tilted: 'Motorcyclist Mag is Plagiarist Mag'
Yea, like in the home ;)

rsheidler 04-18-2003 12:35 PM

Re: Windmills Tilted: 'Motorcyclist Mag is Plagiarist Mag'
Actually, I am not refering to the legality of ownership. If I write a book and lift large blocks of text from some obscure author published 200 years ago, and claim this as my own work, I am guilty of plagarism in any moral or ethical sense of the term, regardless of copyright law. The law (copyright or patent) limits the period over which I have the right to exclusive profit from the sale or other use of my creative work, but does not limit the time I can claim it as my work.

If I were to happen across a previously unknown volume of Shakespere's poems, I can publish them without paying any royalties to his heirs. I have no problem with that. However, if I were to publish them and claim them as my own work, that is stealing something from Shakespere (and from western civilization) that cannot be valued in monetary terms.

Sir Isaac Newton's theories on the laws of motion and gravity will always be his. If an unscrupulous colleague named Smyth had somehow stolen credit for these discoveries, we would now refer to these laws as "Smythian Physics." What kind of monetary value would you place on having that legacy stolen from you? That is what I mean by saying that it is worse than theft of money or other property.

BTW, I believe that you are right about Doris Kearns Goodwin. Seems to have been a rash of this in the past couple of years.

An as to the instant case, I am making no claim to knowing what is the actual truth.

johnnyb 04-18-2003 01:00 PM

Re: Windmills Tilted: 'Motorcyclist Mag is Plagiarist Mag'
Sure, yeah, blame the victim. Jones is fond of low-cut tops and enticing footwear, so he deserves it in the butt, I suppose...

Grappelli 04-18-2003 01:11 PM

Re: Windmills Tilted: 'Motorcyclist Mag is Plagiarist Mag'
When I moved to the US from the UK, I started reading the US bike mags. While I still prefer the UK Bike/Ride mags I've found a couple of good ones here. However, Motorcyclist mag/tv is not part of it. Perhaps because I am used to writers being cynical about marketing, the difference was very VERY clear.

They seem to be very marketing oriented, saying what the manufacturors want us to hear, with no serious attempt to do anything except push product. The TV show is especially bad at that. I have'nt seen one bike review on that show that told me what I wanted to know. It all seems so 'nice' and I'm sick of it. The only way I am going to believe you if you say a bike is brilliant is if you don't say EVERY bike is brilliant. Any their lead tester, (name of Kusagi or something similar), has all the TV presence of a loaf of damp bread. Completely useless.

Since I'm on this rant, can I repeat my point about Dave DeSpain, made on an earlier thread. The man is a smiling, slimey mouthed, air-headed waste of air time.

Anyways, back to topic. I don't buy the mag anymore and I've stopped watching the show. I know MO has been going through some hard times, but at least you know when it reviews a bike it'll say what it actually thinks - which is bloody usefull.

PS. Did I mention that I don't can't stand Dave DeSpain?

PPS. Good to see that Johno is still testing, he kinda dropped off the radar for a while there. But what happened to his weekly rants? I loved the way they stirred up discussion.... or is he just lying low until the war is over, doing the politic thing at the moment? (And before I get flamed, that was a joke)

Grappelli 04-18-2003 01:21 PM

Re: Windmills Tilted: 'Motorcyclist Mag is Plagiarist Mag'
Peter.. I forgot to ask you in the last post... what was your contract? Was it flat payment and the Bike Week owned the rights? Because if they did....

I've watched my brother sell the overall rights to a TV series he wrote and what they did to it damaged his writing career very badly early on. And he had no come-back at all. Fortunately he is now a big enough name that he can put clauses in like director or production company approval, even script change approval. But he was lucky to get out of the disastrous directing debacle with his career intact.

By the way, despite my statement above that I don't watch motorcyclist, I did see the Gobert piece on a friends Tivo. Interesting article.

fizzchem 04-18-2003 01:26 PM

Re: Windmills Tilted: 'Motorcyclist Mag is Plagiarist Mag'
My argument boils down to this: You invent some drug that cures a particularly nasty disease. After 20 years, it's no longer your property according to the law. Someone says they're taking the drug you invented (in generic, of course). You say "I invented that drug." There may some societal value to that (getting good tables at nice restaurants, recognition, etc.) and that's okay. You should see some of the deals Universities work out with professors regarding such properties. But someone comes and steals your house, you're pretty much screwed.

From firsthand knowledge, the way things roll in science, you'd know if it were Newton or Smyth who wrote "Philosophiae naturalis principia mathematica". Seldom do we get the stories wrong about science, but not scientists; the story usually told about Galileo is largely falsehoods.

hawkrider 04-18-2003 01:49 PM

Re: Windmills Tilted: 'Motorcyclist Mag is Plagiarist Mag'
I always suspected you were a drama queen Johnny Boy. Try not being so overly protective and emotional and face the facts.

I made it very clear that Jones was wronged. To BLAME him is not the point. To look at this problem from the outside you cannot help but ask, "what could he have done to protect himself?".

We all value work product, but you damn well better be willing and able to protect that product. If some of the people in your industry are willing and able to steal product and ideas and call them their own, why are you all so surprised by the fact that it happened. When I read things like"they do it all the time" and alike.

Mr. Jones, like I said, sue em if you can win, learn from this mistake and move on. And BTW don't let Burns come to your defense, it does not help you cause.

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