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Old 03-13-2003, 03:26 PM   #51
captainwhoopass
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Default Re: Fair price, for a new bike?

Just out of curiousity, what is a dealer's margin (percent) on the model you bought? I've always wondered how much or little they make on them.
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Old 03-13-2003, 04:01 PM   #52
rsheidler
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Default Re: Fair price, for a new bike?

In Utah, the vehicle sales tax is based only on the Boot (assuming that the trade-in vehicle was registered in Utah) so you don't have to play those silly games. Years ago when I sold cars in Washington, we always wrote up the contract with the lowest conceivable trade-in allowance (and corresponding lower selling price for the new one) for that reason.



The guys I was talking about were going beyond that, by skimming off ~$1,000 from each used car sale -- we think they were not only scamming the IRS by underreporting the income, but also ripping of the silent partner. Considering that the silent partner was of Italian ancestory and reminded me a lot of Tony Soprano, we were very uncomfortable about being a party to the deal (aside from professional ethics and legal issues).
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Old 03-13-2003, 04:03 PM   #53
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Default Re: Fair price, for a new bike?

Go to www.cyclebuy.com. They have invoice prices for most major manufacturers (no Italian models, unfortunately) and also tell you if the mfr. offers holdbacks to the dealer. I've bought three bikes in the past two years and found the invoices to be right on the mark. Like others said, though, the dealer won't be willing to budge if the model is particularly popular. Easily worth the $10 for the information. Once you have the invoice price, play the dealers against one another to get the best deal.
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Old 03-13-2003, 04:10 PM   #54
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Default Re: Fair price, for a new bike?

Multiply the suggested retail by 0.83, then add $100 for shipping. This will be within a couple dollars of invoice cost. The maufacturer pays the dealer between $40-50 to assemble the bike, so you should be able to subtract that from invoice cost to get the real dealer cost. The problem is that in some shops, the shop charges the retail sales dept. to assemble the bike since both are usually considered separate profit centers. Most shops charge at least $100 to the sales dept. for assembly. If this is the case, it is reasonable to multiply the suggested retail by 0.83 and add $150 for the sales dept.'s actual cost. Present these figures to the dealer. When I do, some have been honest and told me I was right on the money. Others have said they don't make nearly that much. If they pull that crap on you, then ask them to show you the invoice or walk away. I usually tell my dealer I'm willing to pay their cost plus $500, tax, and title as an OTD price (out the door). Needless to say, if you want the hottest model on th market, they won't sell for cost plus $500, but at least you'll be armed with the facts when you shop. There is also another 3% of retail holdback the dealer gets as a check later in the year, but virtually no dealer will include that in his negotiations. Hope this helps. Cheers, Jack
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Old 03-13-2003, 04:13 PM   #55
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Default Re: Fair price, for a new bike?

Great question, and I wish someone could explain the answer to me. Motorcycle consumer news had a multi-part series on developing a relationship with a dealer that had me convinced I was finally going to get a good deal from a dealer. I followed their advise to the letter and made an offer to my local dealer on an FZ1 of $8000 knowing there was a $300 incentive from Yamaha. The sales manager went into a fit whining about how I was always in the shop (I've had all my service and parts with them on prior bikes) and how I was being unreasonable. They wouldn't do anything on parts because according to this guy it was a seperate business. I walked, and got a nice brand new SV650 and had enough left over to buy a 14 ft boat with motor and trailer for the same

$8000. The real kick in the teeth though, was when I went in for parts a month later and that same FZ was marked $7399 !! My blood still boils thinking about it. Unfortunately they are the only Yamaha dealer within reasonable distance to my house so I guess I'll never own another new Yamaha. Too bad, they make some nice bikes.
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Old 03-13-2003, 06:19 PM   #56
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Default Re: Fair price, for a new bike?

First of all, there is a website that will give you the dealer price for $10. I don't recall the name of the site offhand, but you could probably Google it by typing in, "Dealer motorcycle Price," or something like that. I did that with my R1 and found out that the dealer gets it for around $8500. All that said....

I went to haggle with my local (San Francisco) dealer, and no matter how hard I tried (cash, salesman & sales manager at the table, etc.) I couldn't get them below 11K out the door, even when the salesman's eyes popped out when I showed him the website price. Long story short, I got my bike from a dealer in Los Angeles for $10,150 OTD because they had a fleet of R1's down there as opposed to up here. I guess it just depends.....

Oh, and that San Francisco dealer still leaves messages on my voice mail telling me of the "deal" he can still give me! I'm half-tempted to go up there and show him the invoice from the LA dealer!
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Old 03-13-2003, 07:19 PM   #57
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Default Re: Fair price, for a new bike?

Yup, funny thing that. Everyone talks about supporting their local dealer, but it isn't always easy. I had the service manager at a local dealership tell me that he couldn't take time to troubleshoot a problem on my bike as part of a warrenty claim. I asked him to reconsider since I had purchased 2 bikes from the dealership... His reply was that he couldn't care less about my bike purchases becuase that was the sales department and their income didn't have anything to do with the service department.



So, I don't buy bikes from that dealership anymore. In fact, I have to say that most of the dealerships in my area run their service & sales departments as 2 seprate business under the same roof. So the whole "buy from the dealer, get good service" thing tends to be mostly myth.



That being said, another resouce is www.cycletrader.com. Quite a few dealers list their prices on specific models there, and many of them will ship right to your door.



Good luck on finding a good price on your VFR.

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Old 03-13-2003, 07:23 PM   #58
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Default cash is key

I agree, cash is key. If you don't have cash for all of it, let them know you plan to have a big downpayment on the loan. It is the ultimate way of saying "I'm serious about buying" I've never gotten a good deal on anything I've financed 100%. The dealer might make more on a loan, if the dealer is giving you the loan. But I think cash always makes the salesman happier.
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Old 03-13-2003, 08:28 PM   #59
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Default How Do I get the Best Price on a Big Mac?

I did a little research, and figuring raw materiel costs, administration, advertising, shipping, rent and labor, the total production cost of a Big Mac is 67 cents. And yet they charge $2.29 at my local MacDonalds!



Furious, I printed out my research, blew it up and mounted it on 2' by 4' foamcore boards and marched into the manager's office. I figured MacDonald's only deserves to make about 8 cents of profit on each burger, so I loudly proclaimed that I would pay only 75 cents for the Big Mac, plus it had to have an extra slice of cheese and they should throw in 12 french fries for free (and not the short, pointy ones that fall to the bottom of the bag, either!)since I'm such a great customer. I started to pound my fist on the manager's desk and told them I wouldn't leave until they gave me that deal.



Man, some of those cashiers are pretty tough! They look dumb but they move faster than you think they can. Anyway, after I pulled the fragments of foamcore board from my butt-crack, I went into the Wendy's. Too bad I can never go back to that MacDonalds; the hot apple pies are actually pretty good.
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Old 03-13-2003, 10:47 PM   #60
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Default Re: It's a matter of supply and demand

LOL! I never thought about it that way.



Stupid minivan, only going 70 mph!
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