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Old 01-14-2003, 10:06 AM   #51
seruzawa
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Default Har. America is on the short end of every trade deal in the world.

I'm sure the Canadians are amused about our willingness to go to war over oil. They get to reap the benefits while the US bears the burden of providing a flow of cheap oil that benefits every industrialized nation on earth directly, and all other nations indirectly.





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Old 01-14-2003, 10:06 AM   #52
pnerenberg
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Default Re: The SUV battle rages on

All of the arguments people have been presenting here are quite valid. SUVs have been shown to be no safer than regular or large-sized cars. SUVs do get away with heinous gas mileage and emissions. It seems stupid to me to own a Suburban when you have one kid and never haul anything. But even I, a green freak from California, don't think that they should be banned. I agree that the loopholes in emissions legislation should be eliminated. A higher gas tax, if used for actual good purposes like building some more schools (or hey, even repaving the roads), could also work. However, could you imagine the backlash if the government were to actually ban SUVs? I know that in LA we'd probably have another round of riots. Let's face it, even if we hate them, they'll be around for a while.



In the meantime, if you are that concerned about it, the best thing I think any of us can do is set a good example with our own purchases. You should feel better about yourselves already - while Joe is taking a Sunday ride through the country in his Explorer, lucky to get 17 mpg, you could be on your CBR/GSX-R/R#/ZX-#R or cruiser (pretty much anything) and you'll be getting 40 mpg with ease. Furthermore, I actually have to applaud GM and Lexus (well, Toyota, and I think another company teamed up with them too) for pledging to mass-produce hybrid SUVs in the very near future. GM specifically said they planned on making at least 1 million hybrid units. Only by companies taking a risk and jumping off into the deep end (like Honda) will the technology become widespread.



Me personally, I love combustion engines, but I'm also waiting for the day when AMA Superbike has the restriction "only 4 stack fuel cells allowed" but "aftermarket steam exhausts" are ok. It's sad to think that soon there will probably be a generation that hasn't heard the sound of a Ferrari V12 or the scream of an R6 at 15000 rpm, but I'm sure us motorcyclists will find something exciting to do with environmentally friendly technologies. Remember, if it has any kind of motor, you can race it.
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Old 01-14-2003, 10:30 AM   #53
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Default Re: The SUV battle rages on

If you are more likely to be killed by NOT driving an SUV then you would be a damned fool not to, wouldn't you.



People hear this line about being more likely to die in a 'normal' car and they then run out to buy an SUV to be safer, especially if they have kids. That's one reason why I drive a K2500.



This demonstrates the utter lack of understanding of human behavior that infests the safety/pollution lobby. Their own propaganda increases SUV sales.



This is similar to the eco-wackos who announce loudly that they are going to "protect" the Kaiparowits Plateau, or some other area. Immediately thousands of outdoorstypes pull out their maps and say to their wives, "That Kaiparowits Plateau must be a good place to camp, Mabel." The next thing you know they are on their way to the "protected" area in huge numbers. (This actually happened to the Kaiparowits Monument area after the genius Clinton "protected" it. The number of visitors increased some tenfold.) There are other areas where I used to go camping that had few visitors until the Wilderness types announced their plan to "protect" them.



So if you really want to keep people from buying SUVs you should find a more intelligent way to achieve that goal than telling average Joe that he is more likely to die if he's NOT in one.



Just a suggestion.
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Old 01-14-2003, 10:31 AM   #54
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Default Re: The SUV battle rages on

Maybe they were just trying to keep up with their white neighbors on the other side of the tracks...
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Old 01-14-2003, 10:45 AM   #55
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Default Think outside the box.

I knew you get a power thing going. Actually the 600 RR thing is from someone that actually rode the bike as was the ZX-6R post. Since MO hasn't I think I want folks to hear about it..

Your SUV subject is old tried and true flame bait. Guaranteed to get some posts. Try to think up something new like "Why V-Twins are obsolete in racing?"
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Old 01-14-2003, 10:47 AM   #56
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Default Re: Are Americans myopic? selfish?

Why does anyone need a 4WD SUV in FLA Dave?
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Old 01-14-2003, 11:19 AM   #57
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Default Re: The SUV battle rages on

Well said, I don't feel guilty about a Sunday ride on my new SV650 that gets 60 MPG, even my VFR gets 45, but as much as I love internal combustion engines I hope technology catches up with pollution.
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Old 01-14-2003, 11:24 AM   #58
richardnixon
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Default Re: The SUV battle rages on

Please read more carefully. What I said was;



"At the same time SUVs do not confer many benefits on their drivers. The perception that SUVs are safer for those that choose to drive them is untrue.



- SUVs have a higher rate of fatalities than "normal" passenger cars."



What that means is you are more likely to die in a traffic accident if you are driving an SUV. The primary reason for the increased rates of fatalities for SUV passengers is rollover.



At the same time you are also more likely to kill the passengers in any "normal" vehicle that you hit in a traffic accident.



Just to make sure I am being clear. Everyone loses in the scenario. You are more likely to die. Others are more likely to die.



I would suggest reading High and Mighty: SUVs--The World's Most Dangerous Vehicles and How They Got That Way, by Keith Bradsher. He cites copious statistics that refute the commonly held myth that SUVs are safer than "normal" cars.



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Old 01-14-2003, 11:28 AM   #59
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Default Re: THE AMERICAN RIGHT TO WASTE RESOURCES

Been listening to Pacifica news, eh?



Do you honestly think that the NK govt and society in any way compares to the US? Are you at all aware of the situation in NK and how it's been building for years?



Get a clue. The NK govt is building nukes while its people are literally starving to death. Yet you have more ire for our system which has provided you with untold wealth and is, by the way, one of the cleanest nations on Earth.



Maybe you should move there and try to express your opinion publicly.
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Old 01-14-2003, 11:32 AM   #60
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Default Re: WE'VE ALWAYS NEEDED SUVs...HAVEN'T WE?

Excellent Point. My dad is a retired farmer/rancher. He marvels at the folks that say they need 250 hp V-8 SUV to tow things. If you look at 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton pickups in the 60s and 70s. Small blocks V-8s and straight 6s. Torque is important.
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