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Old 01-14-2003, 07:55 AM   #21
Buzglyd
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Default The Government created SUVs.

The reason we are currently dodging SUVs on the road is because the goverment tries to dictate what we drive.



Consider this: Automakers are subject to CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) standards that affect its entire fleet. All of the automobiles (trucks have a different standard) a manufacturer has for sale must average 27.5 MPG or the company is subject to penalties. That's why Chevy has to waste money offering cars like the GEO Metro (which no one wants) to help its CAFE average.



Remember that big rear drive station wagon you cruised around in as a kid? We even pulled a trailer with ours. (Try that with a front drive minivan) Well, Ford, Chevy and others have dropped big rear drive cars from their lineups because it was hurting CAFE averages.



Now we've got a problem here. You've got four kids and a trailer to pull. The auto companies started making their trucks more carlike and viola', you have the SUV.



Now I will agree that the SUV is a fashion statement more than a necessity for many people but so are 150 hp motorcycles. I drive a 15 mpg Toyota Tundra V8 which I use to put things (like motorcycles) in the back.



If you want us to quit buying Middle East oil than we have to produce more of our own but the greens don't want that either. Conservation is a good thing (I'd like a mini cooper to putt around in) but we cannot conserve our way out of this totally.



Anyway, saying SUVs fund terrorism is a massive oversimplification. I suppose our motorcycle are (to a lesser degree) as well.



Wasn't there just a news article on electric scooters? Time to sell the R1!
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Old 01-14-2003, 08:05 AM   #22
Gabe
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Default Nobody wants to ban SUV'S!!!!

There has NEVER been a serious move to ban SUV's or "limit freedom of choice" by anybody. Not even the Sierra Club. Some people NEED SUV's. Maybe Carl Pope drives on unpaved roads a lot as part of his job? Why shouldn't he have an SUV if he needs one? And if I have a boat, why shouldn't I get an SUV to tow it with? Makes sense.



The "they want to take away my gun/SUV/TV/motorcycle" thing is just hyperbole used by tiny minds who realize their arguments are hollow. Again, nobody is advocating that. But just as it's inappropriate to drive earth-moving equipment to Stuckey's for a bite to eat, so is it silly to have a gas-guzzling, off-road vehicle for mostly paved-road, single or two passenger trips. If you can afford it, terrific. But DON'T ASK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO SUBSIDIZE YOU!!!!!



If you want an SUV, who am I to say you can't have one? But they should be subject to the same safety and pollution laws that all passenger vehicles are, as well as not be SUBSIDIZED by government tax loopholes! If that was the case there would be fewer of them, ensuring that those only those who really need them will buy them.



Right now, a realtor can write off the cost of her Navigator as business equipment at a higher rate than a comprable Lincoln sedan. Why? Makes no sense at all.



You should be able to do what you want with your money; just don't pass the higher costs onto the rest of us! And SUV's cost ALL of us more!
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Old 01-14-2003, 08:18 AM   #23
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Default Re: The SUV battle rages on

This Arianna Huffington woman lives in a 9000 sq-foot mansion in Malibu, can you imagine the ammounts of foreign oil that it takes to heat and cool this behemoth? She will never tell. Also she will never tell us what she drives.

There are reasons to dislike SUVs, they are big, fat, and ugly. Lately, in fact, some have gotten ridiculously big.

Regardless, blaming SUV owners for terrorism is stupid, if SUV owners support terrorism so do Toyota owners or VW owners and Motorcycle owners for that matter, only they pay less for it. Why is it that people like Barbara Streisand and Ted Turner and now this ***** Huffington have this holier than thou attitude and pretend to tell the average Joe how to live their lives? To them I say: *&$# off you bastards
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Old 01-14-2003, 08:21 AM   #24
richardnixon
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Default Re: The SUV battle rages on

A key part of the SUV debate that seems to be getting glossed over in most of these posts.



SUV drivers' behavior shows little sense of civic responsibility. Driving an SUV for personal transportation is an incredibly selfish act.



? SUVs are more likely to kill the passengers of other vehicles in accidents.

? SUVs consume more gasoline per mile than "normal" automobiles.

? SUVs emit more pollutants per mile than "normal" passenger cars.



At the same time SUVs do not confer many benefits on their drivers. The perception that SUVs are safer for those that choose to drive them is untrue.



? SUVs have a higher rate of fatalities than "normal" passenger cars.



The only real beneficiaries of SUVs are the automotive companies that make huge profits on SUVs and oil companies which are able to sell more oil.



SUVs should NOT be banned, but the loopholes that allow SUVs to avoid the same emissions and efficiency requirements as automobiles should be closed. The decision to buy an SUV is a personal one all I would ask is that you consider the community impact of your new SUV prior to making your purchase.
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Old 01-14-2003, 08:21 AM   #25
Abe_Froman
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Default Re: Huffington in a righteous huff

What is "dissent"? It used to be challenging leaders on their conscious and unconscious attacks on our individual rights. Now it has degenerated into righteous indignation at the free choices others make, and an attempt to get government to regulate those choices to the indignant's satisfaction.



It would truly be dissent for Arianna to take out an ad publicly proclaiming her distaste for SUV's, while simultaneously stating her intent to do absolutely nothing about it.



We used to cherish freedom more than safety, health, clean air, and toilets that only use .75 gallons per flush. Evidently we no longer adhere to that standard.
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Old 01-14-2003, 08:25 AM   #26
Buzglyd
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Default Re: Nobody wants to ban SUV'S!!!!

You make a good point and this goes back to the fundamental reason for the tax code. Right now it's 1500 pages long and is used to encourage all kinds of behavior. Personally I think the tax code should be used to raise revenue and nothing else. A flat tax with a generous personal deduction would eliminate an awful lot of power in Washington.



I may be a Republican, you may be a Democrat but we both know neither party will give up that kind of power.
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Old 01-14-2003, 08:37 AM   #27
Abe_Froman
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Default Re: Nobody wants to ban SUV'S!!!!

I agree......SUVs should not be subsidized by government. Cars shouldn't either. Nor the homeless, the poor, the elderly, the rich, the corporations, the farmers, the schools, or any other person or group under the sun.



Whoops......I just cut out 75% of the reasons for taxes. Oh well, we can then keep that money and buy all the SUVs we want.



Oh----yes, SUVs should be subject to the same government pollution and safety laws that every other vehicle and product should be subject to. That is, NONE. If the government disbanded the NHTSB and repealed every product safety law tomorrow, I couldn't care less.
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Old 01-14-2003, 08:43 AM   #28
Abe_Froman
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Default Re: The SUV battle rages on

The "community impact"?



My mom was driving her Jeep Cherokee when a car pulled out in front of her. They said later that the impact was severe enough that if she was not driving that strong, well-built Cherokee, she might have been injured.



Is that the "impact" you're referring to?



The type of car I drive makes absolutely no impact on my neighbors. Go knock on their doorsand ask-----they'll say the same.
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Old 01-14-2003, 08:43 AM   #29
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Default Re: Are Americans myopic? selfish?

"Less envy from the world?"



Okay, I guess that you'll back that up by immediately selling whatever bike you've been riding lately, so that you can import an Indian-built Honda Hero Splendor 100cc... right?

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Old 01-14-2003, 08:50 AM   #30
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Default Re: Are Americans myopic? selfish?

You make a good point. Instead of riding a 1000 cc GSXR, I'll keep my 600cc 48 mpg Ninja. OK
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