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Old 12-09-2002, 07:45 PM   #51
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Default OOPs Excellent piece of writing Francis Clark

Sorry I mistakely thought Sean Alexander wrote it. I totally agree.
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Old 12-09-2002, 07:47 PM   #52
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Default Re: Buy a Bike: Stop Terrorism, Save the Planet, and Get Right with God

The only problem with population reduction proposals is that the people proposing population reduction never see their own particular niche as one filled with "excess" population. Somehow they always see themselves as exempt from such controls.



When the communists take over a nation their ideas of "excess" population is always first the "intellectuals". Maybe they have a point.....
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Old 12-09-2002, 07:50 PM   #53
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Default Re: Buy a Bike: Stop Terrorism, Save the Planet, and Get Right with God

s stupid

u unpatriotic

v vehicle.





Excellent. I totally agree. Here in Seattle I can almost gurantee when I see an SUV cheating in the carpool lane it is a women driving. You are absolutely right there are so many better vechicles than a SUV. Of course the automakes love SUVs because of the high markup.
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Old 12-09-2002, 07:51 PM   #54
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Default Re: Buy a Bike: Stop Terrorism, Save the Planet, and Get Right with God

No way man! He'd be on some seriously modified superbike, white leathers and smoking knee sliders!!!
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Old 12-09-2002, 07:56 PM   #55
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Default Re: Buy a Bike: Stop Terrorism, Save the Planet, and Get Right with God

Hey I don't think you are who Francis is talking about. Francis is talking about the person that drives an SUV who doen't need to. Here in Seattle SUV mania is of epidemic proportions. I grew up in rural Colorado where folks had a car and pickup. Pickup for work car for trips to town etc. Here in Seattle we have folks who never leave the pavement or carry anything driving around in Excursions, Yukons etc. It is obscene.
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:03 PM   #56
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Default Re: Exhaust gas emissions

Vlad,



Unfortunately, engines are not created equal. Essentially, every engine is just a big air pump with the sole purpose of pulling in as much air as it can, mixing it with some gas, burning the mixture and pushing out the remains. CO2 emissions are going to scale more or less linearly with gas mileage as it is a natural product of this process. The 40 mpg VFR is going to emit roughly 62.5% of the CO2 that the Caddy does. On the other hand, HC, NOx and CO are products that form when combustion is incomplete. The PID measuring the amount of unburned HCs in the exhaust gas stream did not take into account the total volume of exhaust gasses being emitted from each vehicle, only the gasses the built in air pump could grab. So, at best, the comparisons were qualitative.



What one really needs to do is to magically collect all of the gasses that a VFR and a Caddy emit while they travel the same distance at the same speed. Then take each bag of gas and measure the TOTAL VOLUME of unburned HCs. You will find that the VFR has emitted significantly more HCs (and probably more NOx) than the Caddy. This occurs because the engine management and control systems on the Caddy are vastly more advanced then on the VFR. The Norstar motor in the Cadillac burns fuel much more completely at all RPM ranges and throttle positions then the VFR could ever hope to, and hence is a much ‘cleaner’ vehicle. Late model cars and trucks burn gasoline much more completely than motorcycles do simply because motorcycles lack sophisticated engine management and control systems.



The absolute figure is important, but I wasnÂ’t measuring absolutes out of each vehicle.



Jon

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Old 12-09-2002, 08:03 PM   #57
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Default Re: Buy a Bike: Stop Terrorism, Save the Planet, and Get Right with God

You must be kidding. But in the context of the question, manmade pollution, his remark was comical. I loved Ronnie but he was in left field on that one Look I am republican and Reagans energy policy was a joke. We are more dependent on foreign oil than ever. Both parties are to blame. Every President since then has not addressed it. Someday we will pay for our inattention.
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:08 PM   #58
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Default Re: Good Rant

I think that a sustained price increase to $2-3 per gallon would start to have an effect. The problem with last summer price increase was it was a spike in prices not a sustained increase.



I don't follow your progressive conspiracy thing. Of course I don't live in live in Utah.

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Old 12-09-2002, 08:19 PM   #59
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Default Not so fast Crash The real cost of Arab Oil

First the majority of SUV owners do not "Take five adults, one Saint Bernard, and a hundred pounds of gear on two cross-country trips and regular camping outings. "

Second just because someone will buy the oil that we don't doesn't means we should be looking at other ways to haul 5 people and Heidi around. The real cost of Arab Oil is that it makes us sell out our ideas i.e. we support oppressive monarchies like Saudi Arabia. It's the political cost that makes buying oil from the Arabs expensive. It also makes us venerable to region that is inherently unstable politically. So go ahead and buy your SUV but don't be suprised if a relative of yours ends up in the Middle East fighting for oil some day. Just to be clear I am a Republican that happens to think we need to get off our butt and do something about our oil dependence on Arab Oil. And driving around in an SUV is not the way to do it.

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Old 12-09-2002, 08:46 PM   #60
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Default No, it isn't really.

So what you're saying is, he's wrong.



Wether there should or shouldn't be readily available SUV's wasn't his point...it was that we shouldn't sin like those who sin against us do. I.E., don't say "Ban SUV's" when there are people running around saying "Ban Motorcycles" or "Ban Offroaders" or whatnot.



Freedom is freedom. Personally, I could care less about who drives what. It will burn itself out soon, you know -- styles change.



The SUV will fall out of fashion soon enough. Look at standards in the 70's (really the sportbikes of their day, I know, but work with me here...), sportbikes in the 80's and cruisers in the late 90's and 00's. Fashion changes...good thing too, because those sportbikes in the 80's and early 90's were damned ugly...



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