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Old 12-11-2002, 06:27 AM   #111
ltcmdr
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Default Re: Talk show caller

Geez Vlad, I hate to keep putting flaming bags of poop on each others porch, but there you go again, and so go I

(now where did I put that eng.comp book?)

I'm generally good with facts and figures, but after my last gaff I hate to say anything. HOWEVER, your beloved Outback with a 3.0 is only rated to tow 2400 lbs. Gosh, thats a whole bassboat ya' got there. I live 20 minutes from the ocean. The lightest boat I have pulled in the last five years is 5000 lbs. I'll take the big truck.

Do you really believe not buying oil will stop terrorism in some small part? We are dealing with messes that our own government has helped created since WWI! If you really want to cut back on terrorism, stop supporting Israel! In 1946 we could have given them a national park as big as their country, a park that was unoccupied! But nooooo, we displaced another people in another country so they could have what they want. They've suffered terribly for it.

Terrorism is a weak and simple mans war. They are bullies. We are doing the right thing. But if you stop buying oil from OPEC, then they will raise the cost to rest of the world, and in the end, we will get in in the rear, one way or another, unless the entire world comes together against them. Won't happen. Hell, we can't even agree to anything on this forum.

By the way, some simpleton with notions like yours is probably in congress right now trying to get the national speed limit back to 55mph to save a couple of gallons of oil, or raising taxes on gas to reduce its consumption and finance the war on terrorism.

(and I don't know you well enough to dislike you, but I do know that I didn't like your thread)

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Old 12-11-2002, 09:28 AM   #112
scott_650
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Default Re: Buy a Bike: Stop Terrorism, Save the Planet, and Get Right with God

The very same (mostly) free market that produced the plentitude of wonderful motorcycles we all love also produced the SUV. Yeah, most folks who own them don't NEED them in a practical sense. Well, we don't NEED motorcycles either. The market responds to the wants of consumers as well as the needs (food, shelter, etc). Just take a look at the historical examples of societies where needs took precedence over wants. I very much doubt anyone would perfer a Trabant over an

Explorer or an IMZ over any modern m/c made in the West. Crying out for someone to do something about products you don't like is kind of strange since very few non-riders have any affection for any kind of motorcycle. The very Greens and anti-development folks who are the most upset over SUVs are the same people who've blocked the solution to the problem: more roads. Our miles of roads built don't even come close, in proportion, to the increase in vehicles using them. However it is very ironic that the government regulation - and changing tastes - that killed the market for full-size automobiles drove the increase in SUV popularity. The average Explorer IS bigger than say a 69 Impala. Personally, I like the Impala : )
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Old 12-11-2002, 11:49 AM   #113
rsheidler
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Default Re: Not so fast Crash The real cost of Arab Oil

That is exactly why I chose the Escape over a more traditional SUV -- modern 4wheel independent suspension, unit construction, good brakes, reasonable size and weight, 25 mpg etc.



The V6 Escape will easily beat my V8 pickup in passing or hillclimbing power.



I also considered Toyota RAV4 and Honda CRV -- I bought used, so choice came down to the best deal I could find.



If I had been able to persuade my wife, I would have gone with a Suburu WRX wagon,which would have met all my practical requirements and would have been a lot more fun too.
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Old 12-11-2002, 12:48 PM   #114
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Default Re: Buy a Bike: Stop Terrorism, Save the Planet, and Get Right with God

Wade through the posts above and find one that suggested outlawing SUVs. I couldn't find one. We're saying don't buy SUVs, here are the reasons, etc.



I don't care for SUVs, and I don't care for cruiser type motorcycles. I can't understand why anyone would buy either one of them. That being said, I have no problem with cruiser riders, all good natured ribbing aside. They are not using a very inefficient tool to get the same job done (in this case, a motorcycle fix) as the rest of us, like SUV drivers are. Cruisers don't make the roads more dangerous to those of us who don't ride cruisers.



You say the market responds to the wants of consumers. This is a vast oversimplification of the market. The market responds to advertising. Let's look at the facts: There have been suburbans, grand wagoneers, and wranglers for a long time. It used to be that only people who needed them bought them, for good reason (they suck for everyday driving). What changed in our society that caused this groundswell? Did the weather get worse? No, the opposite is happening. Did the roads get worse? No, again, the roads get better and better. Did people get more active? No, we're less and less active. Did the automakers figure out how to make outrageous profit margins by preying on people's insecurities? bingbingbing.



There wasn't a groundswell of people wanting SUVs after the oil crisis of the 70s, when the winters were worse, people were more active and snow removal equipment did a worse job than now. There was a groundswell of people wanting SUVs after the big three found out how much lemmings would pay for a pickup truck with an extra row of seats, and came up with one of the most effective ad schemes in history (the "be manly, be an individual, be adventurous, be secure, buy an suv" hype).



Just look, for example, at the Chevy Blazer slogan from a year ago "A little security in an insecure world". How are you more secure in blazer than a camry? And why is the world all the sudden insecure? Crime rates drop lower and lower, average life expectancy continues to lengthen, diseases are being cured, you live in the most powerful country in the world, but you need an SUV to be secure. Because most of the biggest dangers to you can be mitigated if you drive a vehicle with 4wd. Please.



All we're trying to do is let people know they are being had. I've personally convinced many, many people not to buy an suv after I told them what I thought. Never have I written a letter to my elected officials (and I write quite a few) asking that SUVs be outlawed.



I just gotta comment on a news blip I saw the other day on a local station here in the twin cities. It was about some high school rallying around a group of high school girls that were seriously hurt when the RAV4 they were riding in flipped over. They interviewed the parents, and they made a statment that went absolutely unchallenged by the talking heads. While discussing how careful they were to sheild their daughter from the dangerous suburban world they live in, they stated "and we even did hours of research, to make sure we bought our daugher the safest vehicle we could find" A RAV4! Hello! I'm guessing thier research was talking to a toyota salesman.



Oh yes, and more roads are the solution. Just look at Atlanta. A 10 lane wide parking lot, instead of a 2 lane wide parking lot. Much better. A mix of roads, mass transit, and planned development is the answer. More roads and nothing else equals a wider traffic jam.



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Old 12-11-2002, 02:16 PM   #115
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Default Re: Buy a Bike: Stop Terrorism, Save the Planet, and Get Right with God

My 72 240z was stolen ten years ago. 3 webbers, oversized exhaust and a 5 speed out of a 280. Hit 158mph one night, loved that car...
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Old 12-11-2002, 02:46 PM   #116
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Default Re: Buy a Bike: Stop Terrorism, Save the Planet, and Get Right with God

Why don't you "ANTI-SUV" folks start your own club. You should call it the:



"EVERYONE SHOULD DO WHAT WE SAY AND LIVE LIKE WE DO BECAUSE WE ARE SMARTER AND BETTER THAN YOU, IF YOU DON'T AGREE YOU ARE AN UNPATRIOTIC PATHETIC LOSER CLUB"



Give it a shot, you could be the grass roots of a great political movement in our country. Or as I suspect you will be able to hold your annual convention in a phone booth.



P.S. I think some of you don't even ride, how can you, your posting crap all day. When do you ride?



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Old 12-11-2002, 06:22 PM   #117
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Default Re: Buy a Bike: Stop Terrorism, Save the Planet, and Get Right with God

In the spring, summer, and fall. It's 15 degrees outside.



Oh, and nice reply. So, if you don't agree with us, you won't debate the merits, you'll just attack the messengers. Tells me you've really been thinking about the subject. Good job, keep those thoughtful posts coming.
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Old 12-11-2002, 08:32 PM   #118
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Default Re: Not so fast Crash The real cost of Arab Oil

Yeah, I hear that, I tried to talk my wife into a legacy wagon or a forrester, but she didn't like them, and I got a good deal on an Altima, so thats what I got, up here the AWD system on Subaru's is really popular, the Escape and the Mazda version seem to sell well too.
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Old 12-12-2002, 07:26 AM   #119
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Default Re: Buy a Bike: Stop Terrorism, Save the Planet, and Get Right with God

So that'sthe way this works? I never accused any anti-SUVers of wanting to outlaw SUVs. So you answered an arguement I didn't make in order to ridicule my statements. Hmmm.



Also, how many $25-40,000 decisions do you make based on advertising? This dual assumption that the auto industry is both stupid for producing lousy vehicles and diabolicly clever enough to trick people into buying them is way more simplified than my generalizations about the free market system.



Lastly, how about some names and e-mails of these legions of brand-new sedan drivers you so artfully educated? Aint the Internet a grand thing for anonymous flights of fancy?
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Old 12-12-2002, 01:50 PM   #120
bwarbiany23
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Default Re: Buy a Bike: Stop Terrorism, Save the Planet, and Get Right with God

Yeah, so that electricity could be generated by a coal or nuke plant a few tens of miles away...



People like these electric cars... Where does electricity come from? Coal, which the environmentalists hate, or nuke, which the paranoid environmentalists hate.



Go for fuel cells... It's all about the Hydrogen...



Brad
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