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Old 12-10-2002, 03:05 PM   #101
rsheidler
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Default Re: Not so fast Crash The real cost of Arab Oil

Sorry to say, damn it really pains me ....... ok, caught my breath. Gotta go with KPaul on this one, at least partially.



Clearly there are SUVs which are used to carry large families, tow boats or campers, and/or which are used on back roads or deep snow, but every survey I have seen (not just Washington State) confirms KPaul's basic premise. The vast majority of the time, most SUVs are being driven on paved roads, with a single occupant and maybe a purse or briefcase, or maybe a few grocery bags for cargo.



On the other hand,where I live, most families own at least one 4X4 vehicle, and they are used largely as god intended -- to drive off-road and in snow. I own an SUV -- a Ford Escape that gets 25 mpg, and gets me through the deep snowdrifts that are common around here (unfortunately not yet this season -- I wanna ski!), and I also have a 4X4 Ford pickup that gets maybe 15 mpg on a good day, has loud, aftermarket twin pipes (they were on it when I bought it) that gets used when there is snow on the ground, when I go up into the national forest roads, hauling building materials, firewood and most importantly, hauling my Ducati to the track. I don't feel a moment's guilt about either.



While it pains me to see people driving around in perfectly polished monster SUVs that will never be used off pavement -- much the same way that it pains me to see poseur Ducati riders on new 998s, with 1 1/2" "chicken strips" on the edge of each tire, wearing $1500 color-matched Dianese leathers whose knee pucks have never been within 2 feet of asphalt, I do defend their right to squander their money this way if they so choose.



I do have a problem with SUVs (and light trucks as well) being given a free ride from so many environmental, safety and CAFE standards. Not saying whether those standards are right, but if passenger cars gotta meet them, SUVs and pickups should as well.



Cheers

Bob

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Old 12-10-2002, 03:14 PM   #102
Buzglyd
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Default Those who believe in over-population should kill themselves

Those who believe in this over-population nonsense are the ultimate in unbridled arrogance. You mean OTHER people are causing the population problem not you right?



Perhaps if the entire over-population crowd organized a mass suicide I might begin to believe they were actually serious.
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Old 12-10-2002, 04:12 PM   #103
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Default Re: What planet are you on itcmdr?

Not quite sure which document you were looking at, but it looks like we import more than 50% of our oil. Granted, most of it is from Canada and Mexico and not from the Middle East.
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Old 12-10-2002, 04:24 PM   #104
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Default Re: What planet are you on itcmdr?

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/txt/ptb0501.html



In 2001 we produced 5.9 million barrels a day, and imported 11.6 million, thats 66% imported by my math.



In 1949, however, we only imported about 10% of our oil.
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Old 12-10-2002, 05:17 PM   #105
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Default Re: Buy a Bike: Stop Terrorism, Save the Planet, and Get Right with God

"It ain't the manly men driving these road-going coal barges around here. Women. Almost all women. And often with a cell phone planted in the ear. "

Well said.

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Old 12-10-2002, 05:39 PM   #106
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Default Re: What planet are you on itcmdr?

Anton_1,Gotta love it! I found two documents showing that we are currently in production of about 8.2 million gallons a day, and are importing approx. 560,000 gallons to meet demand. Of course after reading your post I went back through several other documents, graphs and charts, and based on those, it does appear that we are importing about 52% for the first 8 mos. of 2002! And about half of that from OPEC.

I Stand corrected Mr. Cook.
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Old 12-10-2002, 06:50 PM   #107
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Default Re: Talk show caller

Gee, Lt. Cmdr, what a shining sack of vitriol you have offered me. Unfortunately, it appears that you were the one with the wrong facts, not me. As for options to tow that boat and family, try an suv that gets good gas mileage, like a Subaru Outback Sport. We own one, and it does just fine on dirt roads, even on what are excuses for roads. And it gets 28 miles per gallon. And it can tow a boat.



No, I don't claim to write as well as Johnny B., but I am neither stupid nor misinformed. In fact, Arianna Huffington wrote a rather superb article on the same subject that I found out about after I made my little post. But you probably think she's a "dumb broad." Here's the link: http://www.workingforchange.com/arti...m?ItemID=13960.



My article was intentionally a rant, though I accept the fact that hyperbolic sarcasm goes over your head. And I confess, my intention was to motivate others. And for the manliness comments, I was moved to them by the TV commercials that we see that imply you will be a man if you have a big SUV. These commercials are filled with images of cowboys, construction workers, and horses. You see, I did once work for a large, multinational advertising agency. They actually do think about what will motivate people to buy these oversized tanks. And they do nothing without research. The commercials for the Chevy SUVs are a good example. Obviously, the appeal to "manliness" works in the marketplace, even if it doesn't work on you.



You see, the point I was trying to make is simple. If we cut our oil imports by just a few percentage points, we wouldn't have to buy oil from countries whose citizens put the World Trade Center or the Pentagon on their flight plans. I really don't expect you to like me, but do you like financing terrorism?



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Old 12-10-2002, 08:14 PM   #108
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Default Re: Buy a Bike: Stop Terrorism, Save the Planet, and Get Right with God

Amen!



Now, to actually make a difference, we have to get out there and let people know how we feel. Next time you (and I mean YOU) know someone who is thinking of buying an SUV, let them know what a stupid purchase it is. Unless of course, they have a need for it. Ha. Like if they need to simultaneously haul, tow and drive offroad for a large percentage of their driving, like a good 0.001% of our population.



And, whenever the subject of autos come up, let people know you think SUVs are stupid. People buy suvs to impress other people. If people realised how many other people thought they were idiots, they wouldn't buy them, especially if they had a friend or family member that thought they were stupid.



And let me just say as a native rural Minnesotan (even a hilly part) that 4wd is completely unnecessary here. We have these things called snowplows, they clear the road of snow. I have never in my life not gone somewhere in my front wheel drive car that I wasn't planning on going, not once. Nor have I gotten stuck. So throw the "unless you live in the snowy north" argument out the door, it's BS.



I lived 5 miles west of Boulder, CO for 2 winters (up fourmile canyon, for those familiar) with a 2wd Ranger. I never once didn't make it home. Sandbags, winter driving skills and momentum are all you need.



And as for the "I need to haul" argument, minivans have way more useable cargo space, but aren't manly. And what is wrong with owning more than one vehicle? I have a 1986 2wd Toyota pickup with 160k, purchased for $1200, that I only put about 5k a year on, mostly hauling around my CR250. It has a 4 cylinder, and gets between 22 and 27 mpg. Maintenance costs are near zero, and I only have minimum liability insurance on it. I also have a sedan for everyday driving. Compare my economic model with the cost of SUV ownership. No comparison, but I'm not very manly or adventrous.



TELL YOUR FRIENDS, FAMILY AND COWORKERS WHAT YOU THINK OF SUVS!!!!



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Old 12-10-2002, 09:41 PM   #109
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Default Re: Not so fast Crash The real cost of Arab Oil

You're right about the epa standards, those vehicales are driven like cars, they should be subject to the same emission requirements, as far as suv's being driven off road, lets do the math, Most people aren't going to risk a scratch on a vehicale they just spent $40k on, and if you don't know how to drive off-road the only thing 4wd is going to do is get you further out in the sticks before you get stuck, People can drive whatever they can afford, and suv's are damn handy if you actually work them, but I think in most situations a minivan or sedan would be more practical, cheaper and safer, an interesting study I read stated that in some cases like hitting a fixed or larger object, your actually more likely to get hurt in an suv, because body-on-frame vehicales transfer energy to the occupants, where as uni-body design's with crumple zones and energy channeling construction deflect energy away from the occupants, not to mention stability issues with more top-heavy design's. with all the advances in saftey, performance, suspension, steering, and tire's available in new cars, why would you take a 20yr. step backward with an suv?





















































































































































































































































































































going Brand spankin' new $40K suv,
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Old 12-11-2002, 05:27 AM   #110
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Default Re: Good Rant

You went to public school, didn't you?
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