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Old 10-07-2002, 11:00 AM   #1
DJS
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Default Nice to see someone doing original comparos

Dudes, this is a great story idea...



First post?



David

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Old 10-07-2002, 11:30 AM   #2
A_Nominal_Squid
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

Interesting data...but its hidden in a powerpoint presentation. Here's an HTML mirror for those who can't view those, for whatever reason.



http://penneybros.org/mirror/
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Old 10-07-2002, 11:30 AM   #3
fellswoop13
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Default Its a hotly debated topic--I'll take LBS & ABS

In addition to the rollikin' forums here on MO, I've been all over the net looking for info on ABS and LBS. My 1990 BMW K1 has ABS, and when I'm riding the streets of Boston in the rain and have to stop over crappy lane-paint jobs, manhole covers etc. etc. I'm really really glad I have it. In fact, my next/dream bike is the VFR 800 ABS/LBS.



I don't have a car, so I ride in every weather condition except for snow and ice. I know all kinds of folks will flame/rant about how "real riders/experts" don't use ABS, but I say bollocks. In the real world, on the streets where I ride every day, I want all the help I can get in addition to my 10 yrs 90k miles of riding experience. I know on hot dry pavement ABS braking takes slightly longer than w.o it. But ideal conditions are not what I'm worried about.



Check out this comparo as well, it's old but telling.



http://www.ibmwr.org/prodreview/abstests.html



peace everyone, and ride well







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Old 10-07-2002, 12:08 PM   #4
12er
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Default Re: Its a hotly debated topic--I'll take LBS & ABS

Amen, my linked ABS equiped K12RS has saved my butt at least 10 times in a year. Oil, coolant, lane dots and sand spills be damned. Its nice being able to concentrate on traffic instead of traffic and brake modulation. My bike is my car so I to ride year round. Rain soaked CA roads have to be experianced to believe how slick they are. My buddy from CO was happy to return to snow after a few years of CA rain.



My theory as to why is as follows: CA for the most part doesnt get constant rains. Combine that with constant heavy traffic and every rain storm ends up being an oil slick on the slab. I would assume that Seattle in the rain would have better traction due to more frequent rain and less time for oil and muck build up. CO's snowy roads are covered in sand, after it melts the muck is absorbed somewhat by the sand. That and the muck is also dropped onto snow then washed away, similar to the seattle theory. Make sense?
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Old 10-07-2002, 12:13 PM   #5
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

I wonder why this test doesn't include a standard braking system.It seems that the push is on to legislate only bikes with some type of assisted braking.Not a great idea,as

newer riders will rely only on these systems to get them out of trouble rather than increase their skill level by learning threshold braking in all types of conditions.The testing can by its nature be only subjective anyway, because two individuals will have different results based on their skill level. Rather than spend taxpayers money on tests like these (which is already available from the manufacturers) the

bureaucrats should be looking at ways to educate and test the riding population so they will be better equipped to avoid accidents. Not simply apply maximum braking force and hope

for the best. We have more than just brakes at our disposal to avoid accidents. But your best tool is the skills you have learned through experience and the knowledge that is passed on through riders schools etc.
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Old 10-07-2002, 12:22 PM   #6
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

Thanks for the mirror!!
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Old 10-07-2002, 12:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

Watch for mandated ABS on all motorcycles and scooters soon.



Remember the Claybrook tears under Carter? I'd rather the govt completely forgot about us.



Whenever the govt gets involved expect your wallet to be squeezed with a result of little if any improvement of the situation.
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Old 10-07-2002, 01:00 PM   #8
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

More complete data would have been appreciated. Give us actual stopping distances, not just one bike stopped sooner than the other. Compare apples to apples. Stating that one model of bike stops in a shorter distance than another, discounts too many other factors. At least they mentioned that "performance" tires did yield better results.



There were some very interesting tidbits in the article...



Motorcycle Crashes 1990-1999



Over-40 age group accounted for 39% of fatalities in single vehicle crashes in 1999, up from 14% in 1990



42% of all age group fatalities involved intoxicated riders



Bikes with engine displacement above 1000 cc were involved in 33% of fatalities in 1999, up from 22% in 1990



Single vehicle crashes account for about 45% of all motorcycle fatalities



I added up these stats and have written a sales slogan for Harley Davidson. "You meet the stupidest drunks on a Harley."



I'm not, The Highwayman!
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Old 10-07-2002, 01:34 PM   #9
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

Like Yeah_right says, this study doesn't have a lot of credibility. There are too many variables in these tests with only subjective data presented.



There are certainly a lot more differences than just braking systems between these bikes. And how similiar are the calipers and rotors between these bikes anyway? Maybe I missed something (admittedly, I didn't read the article that closely), but shouldn't one bike have been tested with only manual, then ABS, LBS, and finally both ABS and LBS together? And, uh... I thought it was pretty well established how effective single brake braking was... Why is that included in the test?



On a side note, does anyone know if bikes with LBS have balance controllers installed? Is it an aftermarket option?



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Old 10-07-2002, 01:58 PM   #10
unthanke
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

Amen. I defy anyone to show one thing the government has done better than the private sector.
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