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Old 10-08-2002, 12:47 PM   #41
danch
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

I don't worry about Honda's R&D, especially now that they're on the third generation of the system.



NHTSA, on the other hand, will have us wearing airbags rather than forcing people to operate their ton-and-a-half SUVs responsibly.
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Old 10-08-2002, 12:53 PM   #42
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

This thing came from a European Union site. Can anybody find anything about this study on NHTSA's site?
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Old 10-08-2002, 01:20 PM   #43
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

On a related note...





Some bikes are better candidates for ABS than others. Like most modern sportbikes, my CBR has excellent brake feel and I prefer to manually control the the amount of force applied up to, and including lockup. On the other hand, my BMW R1100RT has some of the most wooden brakes this side of a Soap Box Derby, and I am frequently glad that it has ABS. If it did not, I would have dropped it on more than one occasion becuase it is VERY difficult to tell the difference between reasonably heavy braking and impending lockup of the front or rear wheel. So in the spirit of "the right tool for the job", I would hate to see some rental-car driving, bad-suit wearing, beuracrat decide what type of brakes my next motorcycle has.





That said, I'll thank the "gubamit" to stay as far away from engineering my next bike as possible. And to all the BMW riders I just pissed off... I'm sorry, it had to be said.
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Old 10-08-2002, 01:49 PM   #44
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

how much you think the government paid to learn the obvious? i think pretty much any rider could have told them the same for free. where's the hard data? how large is the difference anyway?



let's see, LBS wins in "rear brake only" because in front and rear brakes are LINKED! ABS wins in slippery conditions because you don't have to worry about the brakes LOCKING"! Brilliant. They have proved that at least the products work as advertised.



now if they could just do something about claimed "dry weight" and "at the crank" horsepower in ad copy...
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Old 10-08-2002, 05:51 PM   #45
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

Don't forget the shocker that a VFR stops better than a Harley
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Old 10-08-2002, 09:53 PM   #46
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Default Re: Its a hotly debated topic--I'll take LBS & ABS

same here, street riding in the seattle are since '80, lots of dirt riding before that, after the first good rain the roads ARE pretty good , it's after we get snow or ice that the roads are slippery because the dot sands the roads, then after it melts cars seem to build the sand up in the middle of corners, slippery as hell, I'm useing macadam 90's now, but I'll need new tires before it starts to get wet, I was planning on macadam 100's or the pilot road's as I'm pretty happy with the michelins, I've had good luck in the rain with dunlop 205's, also metzler 33 front 88 rear combo on older bikes, but the macadams seem to stick the best on my suzuki, I got caught in the snow on my way home from work last winter, so they're good snow tires too, I've never had abs or lbs on my bikes, but living here, I wouldn't have a car w/o abs anymore, I think the front wheel only abs is a pretty stupid idea, as the rear wheel is more likely to slide in panic braking and some riders first instinct is to stomp on the back brake, so it would make more sense to have abs on the back brake in a linked brake system, I think.
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Old 10-09-2002, 03:47 AM   #47
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

at least they used a superglide sport, which Harley advertises as their most performance oriented big twin, but there's plenty of cruisers like the yamaha warrior that have better brakes, I've always thought that LBS or ABS should be on cruiser's, because of theri generaly poorer brakes and handling overall, it seems odd that bikes like the vfr and XX would have assisted brakes when most people that buy that type of bike would have enough experiance to use their brakes well, same with bmw's, there's a motorcycle cop in my neighborhood that say's that even though the maintainance cost on bmw's is much higher, they keep them because of the abs, nice to know their looking out for their guy's instead of the bottom line.
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Old 10-09-2002, 06:29 AM   #48
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

It's a bad assumption to think that folks who buy the VFR or XX would have enough experience to use their brakes. Granted, you said, "most people that by that type of bike" but there are quite a few "Johnny Rockets" who by these and other like bikes who donÂ’t spend enough time on the road to learn correct breaking technique. They benefit from the assisted break systems as well as the more experienced riders. Of the more mature riders who by the bikes you mentioned most like the breaks.



I felt the breaks on my WifeÂ’s VFR w/LBS were far superior to my ST w/out. I am taking into account the difference in weight too. They were so good in everyday commuter riding that I had to stop riding it. I was losing my breaking skills. I tend to use primarily front break all the time on dry roads but use a bit of rear break in wet or slippery conditions. The VFR was so good in all road and breaking conditions that I never touched the rear break. Not a good practice on wet roads if youÂ’re on a big ST1100 and having to stop hard.



That is the danger I see in assisted breaking systems. Why learn correct breaking if the bike is doing it for you? Think of all those who will learn on bikes that are assisted. They will never know how to break properly and when they get on a bike that isnÂ’t assisted theyÂ’ll wonder why theyÂ’re not stopping as they plow into the back SUV at the stoplight.



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Old 10-09-2002, 12:04 PM   #49
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

good points, I've never rode a bike w/ABS so I wouldn't know, I HAVE spent a lot of time and practice on braking, so I'd hate to lose that skill, I live in a wet climate so I think ABS/LBS might be useful here, but I can stop pretty quickly w/out it so who knows,,,
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Old 10-09-2002, 01:22 PM   #50
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

isn't abs an option on this years VFR? is it also LBS? then we could test the incremental difference between LBS and ABSLBS.



i'm pretty convinced that LBS doesn't really offer any advantages over standard braking, as long as the rider is proficient in the use of both front and rear brakes. after all, LBS simply applies more than just whichever brake the rider applies. LBS will however be superior for anyone who uses only one of the brakes.



in any case, who uses just the rear brake only? they won't be riding for very long if that's what they do since something like 90% of stopping power comes from the front.
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