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Old 10-08-2002, 06:46 AM   #31
everiman
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

Pretty awful study, they mixed apples and oranges big time, LBS on a sport bike, ABS on a tourer, conventional brakes on a heavy weight cruiser, a scooter and dirt bike.



Sport bike and tourer (Beemer) are high speed capable bikes, the harley is a heavy long wheelbase cruiser that will rarely see higher than 70 mph, a scooter is a short wheelbase lightweight with limited speed potential, and dirt bike brakes have to be compromised for not dumping you on your butt when traction is so so.



All things being equal, long wheel base bikes don't transfer as much weight to the front under braking so back brakes work better than would on a short wheelbase bike (scooter), or bikes with relatively high C of G (dirt bike). Sportbikes brakes have to match their performance potential which these days is somewhere between amazing and incredible.



In short there is no expectation that any of these bikes would perform equally in braking comparisons even if they all had the same braking technology.



They even had the gall to make recommendations. Be careful my little american buddies, flawed science like this can end up affecting the bikes you ride. Do you realy want to see ABS mandated for every bike sold in the US?

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Old 10-08-2002, 06:47 AM   #32
TatdNPrcd
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

OK, so they'll find the obvious, ABS and LBS brake systems bring a bike to a stop quicker than non-assisted brakes. How ignorant would one have to be to not know that.



I saw a BMW demo of ABS do a stop at 50 MPH on gravel that had I used the same "grab a handfull of break" technique I would have trashed my bike and myself. Guess what... I don't break that way on gravel!



This study frightens me because it is designed to prove a point and save us from ourselves not gather ALL pertinent data and come to a conclusion. That some riders feel this is a good thing makes me think there are a lot of folks around who want our government regulating what and how they ride.



The ABS&LBS/non assisted debate has been around here before and good arguments were made on either side but I would hope that nobody wants this government telling them they have to have ABS/LBS.



Motorcycles are dangerous and riding while drunk or stoned is stupid. Riding beyond your experience level is just as stupid. But relying on this government to protect us by letting them regulate our mounts is stupid too.
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Old 10-08-2002, 08:09 AM   #33
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

This study is mildly interesting, but as many have noted it cannot tell us too much without testing the same bike in all three modes (though some of the language at times sounds like they did shut off ABS on the same bike). Nonetheless, I am fairly certain that ABS would benefit me.



As for the language about requirement, I wouldn't put too much stock in it. This is standard government report stuff. You always make recommendations to justify the report in the first place. More important is that it recommends better studies of the issue. There will have to be many more studies and many more periods for comment before anything changes. For example, there are many more studies extolling the benefits of ABS for cars, yet we don't see it required as of yet.
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Old 10-08-2002, 08:16 AM   #34
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

>Amen. I defy anyone to show one thing the government has done better than the private sector.<



How about defeating Hitler's Nazi a$$? How would a private sector military work? Would they organize and vote in a union, replete with strikes and work slowdowns? Speaking of unions and the private sector, I hope the longshoremen and the management can get their sh!t together soon. How can I cruise the high schools and pickup on underage girls if I can't get my mitts on one of those cool Honda Ruckus scooters? I recall stories of desperate Chinese stowing away in sea containers in order to seek a better life in the USA. Considering that those ships are sitting idle and not being unloaded, I hope they packed lots of drinking water. Isn't the private sector currently being nailed by the government, over stealing billions of dollars from investors in the stock market? Private sector and government. I say we need them both.



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Old 10-08-2002, 09:46 AM   #35
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

Well, I think we all place more faith in Honda than that. No maker would put a bike on the road with brakes linked equally and in a linear fashion.



How hard is it to disable one of these braking assist systems?
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Old 10-08-2002, 10:08 AM   #36
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

Actually, Medicare is a good example of a program the government handles better than (most of) the private sector. Overall, Medicare administrative costs are 3 percent of total dollars compared with 15 percent to 20 percent for most private health insurers. And as much as doctors and hospitals have screamed about Medicare over the years, it is in many localities now one of the higher-paying insurers, and its uniform and widely publicized coverage and billing standards are a snap to deal with compared with many "managed care" plans. Also, questions about medical necessity, etc., which comprise much of the so-called "hassle factor" in helath insurance, are established by rational, if sometimes slow-moving, open processes. Contrast that with the arbitrary medical decisions of many private insurers (for example, I know of several cases where a major insurer has denied services for children with autism on the grounds that their profound speech problems are not due to a medical condition). Medicare is also one of the fastest payers out there. Medicaid, on the other hand ...



In summary, many government programs work a lot better than the alternative. Medicare is one. It's popular to bash government, but it's not all bad by any means.
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Old 10-08-2002, 10:20 AM   #37
Haird
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

The study is obviously flawed due to its comparison of wildly dissimilar bikes. The recommendation about requirng ABS on front wheel only also seems to come completely out of the blue. The more sensible recommendation is that further study is needed, which I hope would be carried out before any mandating of ABS or other equipment is even considered.
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Old 10-08-2002, 10:31 AM   #38
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All cured by the miracle drug trainicillin.
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Old 10-08-2002, 11:23 AM   #39
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

Really, all you can determine is that a VFR stops better than a Harley or a big BMW. Breaking news.
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Old 10-08-2002, 11:30 AM   #40
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Default Re: US DOT Motorcycle Braking Study

From the 'study'



"Many bikes have hybrid brake system with hydraulic actuation on front wheel and cable actuation on rear wheel"



Huh? OK, in this day and age, who the hell would buy a bike with a cable operated brake at either end?
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