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john 05-07-2002 09:38 PM

Re: A matter of perspective
The US has the highest population, both by percentage and raw numbers of any nation.

A VERY VERY large portion of these inmates are a direct result of the drug war.

john 05-07-2002 09:39 PM

Re: A matter of perspective
The US has the highest population, both by percentage and raw numbers of any nation.

A VERY VERY large portion of these inmates are a direct result of the drug war.

john 05-07-2002 09:45 PM

Re: Right on, JB!
Hey sarnali.....

well then there shouldn't be any grey area for driving cars, period. they kill more people than anything else in the us, and it would be so easy to prevent with just a littel work! Oh, but your conveniences....

granted drinking is not the neccessity transportation is, but if people were just more responsible, neither would be the problem they are today

timesheet 05-07-2002 10:04 PM

Re: John Burns: Monday Malfeasance
Overpoliced, and misdirected. I live in a state where I can receive a ticket for operating my ABS and air-bag equipped truck without a seatbelt, yet I am not required to wear a helmet when riding. It's not a good idea to refuse to take an alcohol test here either. Billy-joe and Joe-bob the Lousy-ana state troopers will most likely find a reason to beat the purple ice cubes out of you before getting to troop headquaters. Great. You've got my blood all angried-up.

luvmyvfr 05-07-2002 10:57 PM

I don't follow your thinking
So you measure freedom by the number of people that are in prison per-capita? I don't look at myself in the mirror in the morning and say, I'm not really very free, because 690/100000 people are in jail, and therefore, I have less freedom. Puh-lease, that's a bit of a stretch. I don't think I'm truly that "free" (I really struggle with how some of the people here define freedom) because there are so many laws dictating what I shouldn't do, and if I break these laws, I can be another person in jail. Well, guess what, I don't mind these laws. Freedom, as some of these monkeys define it, is a complete absence of laws, and absolution of responsibility for the consequences of their actions. You're not free if you have to wear your seatbelt or a helmet? Get a life you whiny ass piece of ****e. To hear you ***** and moan about the smallest rules of society and laws makes me want to punch you all in the face, and throw up on you. Driving drunk isn't so bad? Don't ever argue that to my face, or you'll find yourself lying on the ground in a puddle of your blood (and maybe my vomit, if my prior statement holds true). You stupid bastards that sit in little cubicles all day long, or do whatever the hell you do, and have no idea of the REALITY of the tragedies that happen EVERY DAY that are caused by drunk drivers have no right to spout their uninformed opinions. Those few here that have lost loved ones to thoughtless murdering drunks don't even know the half of it. Guess what, people? It happens every day, to real people, with real families with real feelings and real lives. Saying if you do something stupid and only hurt yourself or kill yourself and nobody else is harmed are full of it. Unless you're some kind of cipher, somebody else always gets hurt. If you've ever seen a woman grieve over her dead son, or husband, or daughter, or a father come in to the ER to be with the one of his three children that survived the car accident they were involved in, you would think differently. Only if you have no family, no loved one, and no job, and you die out in the desert and no one ever knows it or notices, do you have a have a right to do something stupid out in that desert (and only there), otherwise, you're hurting innocent people, and that's not fair. Granted there are many things that are not fair in life, but there are so many preventable unfair things, that it's ridiculous to argue in their behalf.

As for the cop and his "ridiculously dangerous" comment, I agree with him, probably because he and I see all kinds of accidents and tragedies that are caused by such rampant stupidity and are totally avoidable. I can't pick up a knife to cut vegetables without thinking how careful I need to be to not cut myself, 'cause thousands of people do it every day, and it's so simple to NOT do, and takes such little thought. You (JB) don't see kids killed by falling off bicycles with helmets on, and maybe that cop has, maybe he saw it that week, or last month, and really was concerned for your son. I have. I don't want you to write a Monday Mourning about how some easily preventable freak accident killed someone you love, and how you wish you could have done things differently, and had a different outcome (heaven forbid). When you deal with sick and hurt people all the time, you think about safety and health all the time (I thought everybody had brain cancer after working Neuro ICU for a couple of years).

Be careful, and safe. I don't want to read about you in the obituaries, or have to take your corpse to the morgue (it creeps me out).


Huss 05-07-2002 11:04 PM

Cops above the law.
This was covered in one of those news magazine shows (Dateline, 60 Minutes I forget which) a couple of weeks ago. They revealed that the cops in California are so gung ho in chasing people because the law does not allow them to be sued by any innocents injured or killed by their actions in the pursuit. So basically they have carte blanche to do whatever the f***k they feel like knowing that if they run over some kids, it doesn't matter as they were driving the company car. A couple of years ago I was going up Kanan Dume road in California from the valley to the ocean. It was in the section where it was 2 lanes in either way. There were signs posted saying slow trafffic stay to the right. Of course all the slow stuff stayed left (doing about 35mph up the hill ina 45mph zone), so I passed on the right. I performed this manouver just exiting one of the tunnels on a left hand bend (if any are familiar, it's the tunnel before Mulholland going south). A cruiser coming the other way saw this, and to my disbelief he pulled a U-turn in front of the tunnel exit where he could have been struck by traffic that wouldn't have seen him until it was too late. I decided to leave the scene with a little use of the throttle, no hanging off or passing anyone, I just made 2 rapid right turns and by the time his Chevy had got up to speed he had no idea where I was. I do often think that that was a bit dumb of me, maybe I should have stuck around and taken the ticket for whatever he felt in the mood of, but my passing on the right sure as h*ll did not endanger lives the way his pulling a blind u-turn did. After finding out they are not liable for any deaths or injuries, I realised it's just a game for them. If they were concerned about public safety, they wouldn't have speed traps in the middle of nowhere on essentially untravelled routes (highway 150 from Ojai to Santa Barbara on a week day comes to mind), they wouldn't cruise the 60 freeway in Orange County at night at about 80 with NO LIGHTS ON so they could sneek up on speeders etc etc. And no, I'm not bitter about getting tickets as my record, knock on wood, is clean, but it really does p-ss me off when I see multi-car chases on TV several times a week.

Sorry for the rant. Ride safe.

jrichard 05-08-2002 12:56 AM

Re: John Burns: Monday Malfeasance
John Burns, you are an IDIOT. If you get caught DUI you should have lost your license permanently. You ***** about bad drivers and now you reveal that you are part of the problem. And, if you don't think we're free, you better do a little travelling. Then again, you probably couldn't recognize freedom anyway.

MO, PLEASE get back to writing about bikes and get this clown out of here. As long as this idiot is writing I'm not re-subscribing.

DucButt 05-08-2002 01:12 AM

Re: John Burns: Monday Malfeasance
Valid, Agent0090, but this is what Burnsie is all about - this is why we love him so much. Besides, I never knew there were so many intellectual motorcyclists out there until JB starting writing for MO and they starting responding.

Speaking of chicks, I realized my mistake when I bought my Duc - it's a monoposto, so I can't ride with her. DOH!!

DucButt 05-08-2002 01:33 AM

Re: I don't follow your thinking
What, the VFR wouldn't start this morning?

Dude, I agree with your viewpoint, but the delivery leaves a lot to be desired... lose the direct personal attacks, and people will be more inclined to listen to you. I say this only because I think you need to be heard - but I think people can't hear you while they're being ambushed. Peace, bro.

Eric 05-08-2002 02:17 AM

Re: John Burns: Monday Malfeasance
Just a few quick words. 1) Those that equate having a lot of police officers with a police state -- I'll give you a choice of living here or living in any of a number of true totalitarian/authoritarian states through history. Then you can see police state. We would be arrested for posting these comments here. The freedom of speech still holds -- even when that speech offends others (look at recent SC decisions on this count). We have given up some incidental "freedoms" -- driving drunk being one of them. But it was the people we elected to office that did it.

2) On that last point, how many of you voted in the last presidential election? Your last gubenatorial election? Your last local election? We voted for city council yesterday in this city of a little over 100,000. 20% turnout. The difference between being on council or not was 102 votes. These are the people who set those little local ordinances like riding bicycles/skateboards on sidewalks, bicycle helmet rules for kids, etc. How many of you have ever gone to a public comment meeting? Complaining in a forum like this does very little without action to back it up.

3) JB (and others). I agree with you on the ridiculousness of many drug laws. I completely disagree on drunk driving. I am, in general, against check points. But if you are caught driving drunk, I want you off the road. If you -- JB -- were not, in fact, drunk, great. How did they convict you? Or is the law there that refusal to take a breathalyzer = guilt? That would be a bad law, in my opinion.

I don't even mind checkpoints at major events where a lot of drinking occurrs. Random checks outside of such a situation not so good.

There are a lot of bad laws. When one of my elected reps does something with which I disagree, I let him/her know. Politely. When someone better comes along, I vote for them. Those of you who don't think one vote makes a difference, look at localities. Local elections are still the source of a great deal of power.

Enough complaining on my part. I have to work.

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