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Old 05-09-2002, 04:55 AM   #121
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Default Re: John Burns: Monday Malfeasance

Sportbike, That was quite possibly the most well reasoned, mature and persuasive post I've ever read.
I thought I'd found true happiness in my personal bath body bar.... Then I tried DOVE! with 1/4 moisturizing cream!!!
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Old 05-09-2002, 05:08 AM   #122
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Default Re: John Burns: Monday Malfeasance

(preface: the 'you' in my response is 'all of you' not specifically 'seruzawa')

Lets put at least some of the blame for zero-tolerance where it lies: the parents of these same kids. Notice the distinction: not -every- parent, but certainly -some-... NO DOUBT. There are irresponsible parents out there who can not accept the fact that their little Johnny is capable of doing something wrong .."other bad kids must've coaxed him into it!... we need more rules!, we need to stop THOSE kids!"

It is because of the thousands of 'incidents' and lawsuits by parents against schools for "not protecting my child against him/her-self or other children" that zero-tolerance became "the solution". I hate that it's come to that too, but I don't entirely blame the schools for resorting to it. They simply got fed up with all the garbage being handed to them day in and day out.

I know some teachers, and they cover the range from elementary to high-school. The stories I hear about parents complaining about other parents and other kids doing things or causing things on "their precious babies" is unreal. Zero-tolerance has very little to do with trying to make people miserable, despite how it appears. That people are indeed made miserable by it is unmistakable though. Tieing effect to motivation for implementation is looking at the situation from the wrong end... you've personalized a 'community' issue.

You're exactly right though: zero-tolerance is to prevent thinking and judgement, but it's only because all other solutions failed to work to everyone's satisfaction. This is the effect of 'dumbing-down' taken to its extreme. Previously, there were exceptions granted in individual cases all the time. However, one parent hears about one exception that some other parent's kid got, and suddenly -their- kid deserves an exception... despite the fact that their kid did something far worse or was more more culpable than the 'other kid' was. These parents lack the judgement to see the distinction, so they complain to the school board. The net result: zero tolerance.

We have gotten the 'government' we asked for, in other words. 'We' is the majority of the voting public, so spare me the "well, -I- didn't ask for it!" That's right, you didn't, but you didn't do anything to actively prevent it either. If you did, good for you, but enough like-minded people didn't likewise do so. This country is run by majority rule... but spare me the grassy-knoll conspiracies and opinons to the contrary..., the bulk of the time...majority does rule, deal with it.

You're quite free to complain though. You're (mostly) free to become an agent of change as well. Good on ya, mate! Let's hear from you!

Change begins from within... as soon as everyone stops being a victim of someone or everyone else, it'll get better, but not before. Removing the laws that you happen to not like, but MOST people live with in harmony every day (like cocaine use/dealing) will not happen and is unrealistic to even hope for... in addition to being self-serving ( which is what a lot of people think is -really- wrong with this nation: too much self-serving ).


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Old 05-09-2002, 05:47 AM   #123
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Default Re: Zero tolerance

Thanks for the link. I'm on the school board in my town and forwarded it to all other board members and the Superintendent of Schools. We are in the process of overhauling our policies system-wide, so this is timely and approporiate. FWIW, we all agreed that we would hate to see this kind of "enforcement regardless of situation."

Mike Conlon

Vice-Chair, Town of York [ME] Superintending School Committee
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Old 05-09-2002, 07:03 AM   #124
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Default Re: John Burns: Monday Malfeasance

I am so sick of all this goddamn whining. We have become a nation of overfed whiners. We deserve our politicians, our police, whatever.

How many of you actually vote, or participate in any political process?

When was the last time any of you attended your town council meeting to protest

spending on the police?

How many of you actually protest or do anything when the police use minorities to practice baton dipping up the wazoo ?

How many of you actually spend more time riding rather than posing or polishing your

chrome ?

You get my drift....

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Old 05-09-2002, 07:20 AM   #125
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Default Re: John Burns: Monday Malfeasance

Ooo, ooo, me, me! I went and got elected to the local school board and I ride my filthy VFR on a 140mi rt commute every day. Good thing I ain't one of those talk the talk but don't walk the walk whiners...

Mike C
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Old 05-09-2002, 07:24 AM   #126
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Default Re: A matter of perspective


I must reluctantly conclude that you are indeed a half-wit, as opposed to someone who just made a half-witted observation. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. This pains me too because I genuinely dig people who disagree with me as long as they are not being knuckleheads about it. I learn a lot more from people I disagree with than I do simpatico types. So you may take pleasure in the fact that I feel bad about writing you off as an ill-tempered complainer with almost no perspective on the complexities of our society. Oh well, at least you are a motorcyclist, and you definitely are in a large crowd when it comes to the rest.

I have gone back and reviewed your posts dude and I think that you are conflicted. On the one hand you rail at the city council in Salt Lake City (or Sandy, or wherever) for being crooks across the board, make sweeping statements about school administrators and social workers which are absurd as absolutes, while on the other hand you apparently want carte blanche (that means anything goes, by the way) for the cops and policies that brutalize people like Abner Louima. So you detest authority when it confronts you but are down with it when it affects others? It appears to me that you merely have a beef with anyone who disagrees with you about anything, and that you are more interested in picking fights than engaging in dialog or, horrors, learning anything. What were you pissed at the City Council for anyway, black UN helicopters?

It appears to me that the guys in little black PJ's might have gotten to you after all. Please go annoy someone else until you can develop either some wit or manners.

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Old 05-09-2002, 08:19 AM   #127
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Default Re: Good to hear you clarify this


Whoa! To the best of my knowledge, no post has been removed. And we welcome your comments which, even if they run counter to a staffer's opinion, are generally well informed and a great addition here.

One of the many moderators may have (for whatever reason) moderated a post of yours downa notch, or it may have been part of a thread whose initial post was moderated down. Make sure your threshold is set to -1 and you'll be able to read everything.

Again, thanks for your contributions.

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Old 05-09-2002, 09:12 AM   #128
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Default Re: In India . . .

Oof, someone took their self-righteous pill this morning.

All those things you mentioned can and should be used to criticize the U.S. culture. The same is true for the failings of the Indian culture. You should open your mind a little and see what you can do about that chip on your shoulder when it comes to viewing your homeland's foibles. If you can't do that, then please study up on rhetorical theory and get back to me when you're ready to debate intelligently.

And now let's head back to our regularly scheduled motorcycle discussion.
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Old 05-09-2002, 09:26 AM   #129
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Default I'm glad I am not Black?!

Of course the color of you skin doesn't make you more prone to commiting crime. But the color of your skin can influence someone's perception of an individual before they have the slightest idea of the type of person you are.

Racial profiling is an unfortunate reality and coupled with the shadow of a doubt, wrong place/wrong time and you could have someone in jail that shouldn't be or shot for no good reason which happened up in Seattle not too long ago.

There is a stigma with being Black in America regardless of economic status. Instead of saying, "I'm glad I am not black." Maybe you should have said, "I'm glad that people don't assume that /I'm some criminal/I'll hurt them/I'll rape them/I appear guilty/ because of the way I look."

I'm glad to be Black.

Anyone that struggles through adversity and conquers it is better for it regardless of who you are. Blacks in America have had an extra helping of struggle early on and are STILL feeling the ramifications. I definately live in a place far better than my father and better still than his but things still must improve.

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Old 05-09-2002, 12:27 PM   #130
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Default Best solution YET!

Why not designate a lane for drunks? Instead of a 5mph lane, how about 15, it's a little more reasonable. Flashers on. Speeding ticket = DUI, leaving your lane = DUI. After all, it's speed + alcohol that kills, not alcohol alone. Everyone drives next to drunks all the time without knowing it, because some drunks can keep their head on straight and concentrate on driving. Sure, if you pull out in front of them, they're going to react slower and maybe be more likely to hit you, but some don't cause accidents. What makes so many drunk drivers deadly is when people get too drunk (over .15 or so) and get agressive, then drive stupid (fast). Keeping drunks in thier own lane at 15mph is a cool idea that will never happen, because of the logistics (not ever road has an extra lane). It's extremely difficult to admit for some people (especially those who have lost a loved one), but there is a grey area where drunk driving is concerned.

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