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Old 05-08-2002, 03:53 PM   #111
Mooner
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Default Re: John Burns: Monday Malfeasance

I knew when I posted that somebody would have a good story on how you can hurt somebody by riding a bicycle drunk! I myself was thinking about various ways. My point is.....not likely. I did learn my lesson though, it's really flippin' hard to ride a bike after a few two many. Won't be doing it again. I could end up ON (and in) the back of a patrol car like your friend.

Later..........Andy
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Old 05-08-2002, 03:58 PM   #112
sportbike_pilot
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Default Re: A matter of perspective

Seruzawa,



Are you calling me a liar? I should warn you I have little patience with apparent half-wits who hide behind rote expression of foolish anecdotes.



Ask Abner Loumia how he feels about the police practices in NYC.



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Old 05-08-2002, 04:29 PM   #113
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Default Re: John Burns: Monday Malfeasance

I think you guys -along with most of the other posters here-seem to be missing the point. The point is not that we should be free to go out and get blasted and drive around. I think that is a small part of the article. The larger question is how far are we willing to go to assure safety and health-at the expense of our personal freedom and liberty. I think JB is right on target when he implies that we live in a virtual police state-and is further making a tongue in cheek remark about the privelage of drinking and driving. But do we live in a near police state?



Let's look at my local area- a city with a population of about 275,000 folks. Let me count the number of law enforcement organizations: A whopping total of 18 state and local police agencies. Is there any wonder that a motor cop is sitting in the bushes writting tickets for seat belt violations? Figure in the FBI, ATF, Military Police, and other various federal agencies (Park Service, et al) and you got a lot of guys running around with badges-and guns. My guess is that most other secondary and third level metro areas are pretty much the same.



Now don't get the impression that I have the camie's out-I am not an anti-government zealot. But it is just about impossible to go about your daily affairs and live a libertarian life without running afoul of some police agencie at some point or another. Let's be real, a police officer ought to have more to do than scold and threaten arrest for a dad out cruising around with his son sitting on the handlebars of a bicycle. Our current zeitgeist of zero tolerance for all infractions, large and small, leads to a lot of folks involved with the justice department(s) not to mention a burgenoning prison population. Our freedoms are being taken away from us in the name of "safety" bit by bit.



Now what do you think the rationale is for spending so much manpower and capital equipment patroling the roads? At least locally, the police departments have been fighting a law that does away with unmarked cars being used for radar work. It seems a known police presence actually causes folks to slow down-as well as depress revenues.



If you spend much time with police agencies in the south you will find a lot of effort being spent capturing drug monies. Forget the drugs. The main prize is the dough.



If you drive around my area with more than $1,000 cash in your pocket you had better be able to prove where the cash came. It will be seized until you can prove how it was legally acquired. You on the other hand, will be allowed to go free sans your money so long as you don't have any other legal issues. This is not an exaggeration or a fabrication. I can show you a lot of government buildings built with this money. Additionally, I have overhead traffice enforcement guys actually brag that they paid for their new cruiser in less than three weeks-about a $35,000 proposition when you figure in the car and all the accessories. And you thought the insurance companies did not have a hidden agenda when they gave away all those radar guns? They too want to legal grounds to raise their revenues.



Look into some of the stories about the law enforcement presence in the Deal's Gap area (Such as the BMW owners group rallie there about three years ago) and you might think about how this applies to your motorcycle enjoyment.



I am not condoning drunk driving. It is incredibly stupid. But I also think we should look at it for what it is and is not. To what extent do we want the police to protect and serve. As well as to what extent we are willing to give up our freedom to make our own choices and assume our personal responsibilities.



And for what it is worth, this type of writting is what sets MO apart from the rags you can get at the Seven Eleven. And exactly why I will renew my subscription. I look forward to more thought provoking articles from JB. There is more to life than a spec sheet.



Peace.
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Old 05-08-2002, 05:41 PM   #114
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Default Good to hear you clarify this

Hey burns said it was a gray area (drinking and driving) in a response to my post. Then you take my post off which says its not a gray area .... etc. . So much for an open and honest forum. Hey post what you want to hear but this Vet is tired of this anti-American law enforcement crap. Then when I challenge it you censor your forum. Hey I won't be renewing my subscription. Burns comments bordered on irresponsible especially for a site like this. Motorcyclist get a bad rap as it is. Some of the best people I know are cops and they ride motorcycles. Hey if you think the US is a police state do some traveling. How about Canada but hey don't think about getting a gun there. Hey I have been around the world and you guys are totally off base on the civil liberties thing. You ever heard of the Bill of Rights or the Constitution maybe you should read it before you go on a global fact finding trip. You will soon find there isn't anything like it anywhere but the USA. But don't worry I will still defend your right of free speach (with my life) however misinformed your are. Stick to bikes
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Old 05-08-2002, 06:10 PM   #115
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Default Re: John Burns: Monday Malfeasance

There is one overarching reason why we incarcerate so many of our people: drugs. When you factor out all those "hardened criminals" who got caught with a bag of dope or a few lines, the numbers drop drastically. The only "societal change" we need to undertake is a massive revision of our ****ed up drug laws. I don't know who thinks the "war on drugs" is worth fighting (besides the mormons and the liquor lobby), but anyone who hasn't come to the conclusion already that it's hopeless needs a reality check. As to DUI, what about people who drive with cell phones, or under the influence of Xanax, Paxil, Prozac, etc.? You know how many over-the-counter medications like antihistamines make you drowsy? They all say not to take them before driving, but if you do, and you whack someone, no one will be the wiser. A buddy of mine had the perfect plan: it should be legal to drive under the influence, as long as you stay in the breakdown lane, under 5 MPH, and with your hazards on.
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Old 05-08-2002, 06:13 PM   #116
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Default Police State my ....

LOL Hey try doing that in Canada or the U.K. So much for the U.S. being a police state. My grandpa back in Texas used to keep a loaded 30-30 in his pickup on his visits to town and when he was checking his farm. He said property lines get real clear to folks when you have a friend along (his gun).
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Old 05-08-2002, 06:22 PM   #117
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Default Re: I don't follow your thinking

Right on. I wish I could write as well as you and keep my emotions in check. Next time when Burnsie does this again. I'll wait to comment until I read your post. Having spent a weekend visiting a hospital emergency room I just don't have paitence for folks who don't take safety seriously, especially with their kids.

Good writing. thanks
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Old 05-09-2002, 03:33 AM   #118
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Default Re: In India . . .

remarkable how ignorant people are. The only thing they know about any foregn countries are their most bizzare and absolute worst aspects.



The killing of one's wife for dowry or things in India happens, but its far more rare than homicide rate in the US, for example. Your attacking India on that ONE point would be like the whole world condemning the US because of the street violence. Or even worse, how about the the US being condemened because of the existence of entities like the Klan, or the rape of children by priests?



Those are problems here, but they don't define the national character of the US. And neither does domestic violence in India. I'd ask you to open your mind, but rarely are righteously ignorant people able and willing to learn what they don't know.
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Old 05-09-2002, 03:34 AM   #119
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Default Bull*****!

What your saying is complete and utter BS and you damn well know it! The fact of the matter is that NO ONE ever needs to drive drunk. For that matter no one ever needs to drink. If you need to be drunk to have a good time then you need to look deep into yourself and find the real problem. I'm not saying that we all can't go out and have a few pops, but you need to understand their is a huge responsibility that goes along with that not only to everyone around you but too yourself as well. And when you f-up there should be consequences to be paid. I suppose you were one of the innocent drunks who was framed because the cop sat across from the bar you were at and waited for you to leave. I suppose it didn't have anything to do with any kind of erratic behavior due to drunkenness.



Bad drivers are a pain in the ass, they suck, and yes something should be done about them. But don't ever try to downplay the seriousness of getting into or onto a motor vehicle while intoxicated and levying a potential death sentence for some unsuspecting individual simply because you are incapable of controlling yourself.

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Old 05-09-2002, 05:37 AM   #120
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Default Re: A matter of perspective

"The real soultions to crime, that is those that have a chance at actually succeeding, require time, money, and a societal commitment to change. Most of us don't want any of that. We'd much rather hear tough on crime talk from the law enforcement community (much of which is not only draconian, unsubstantiated, and ignores reality but is just plain stupid), and election year pandering from politicians rather that work to improve the conditions that breed crime. "



What was that about halfwits? You sound like a member of the social workers cult.



By the way, I survived the little guys in black pajamas so you can spare me your pathetic little attempts at intimidation.
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