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Old 12-12-2001, 09:37 AM   #151
mandrake_the_mollusk
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Default Re: First Ride: Honda 919

Could be because "Hornet" would not be a name that evokes the right image for a bike in American culture. Not only is it the name of comic book character, but cruiser riders scoff at 4-cylinder bikes as sounding like a "bumble bee in a tin can." A hornet in a tin can would sould about the same. Bound to be the butt of jokes. Insect names only fly (no pun intended) on "cute" cars, like the Beetle. So instead they went with a numeric designation that sounds like it might be a Porsche. A little bit of obtuse snob appeal there. Americans will like that better.
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Old 12-12-2001, 09:37 AM   #152
Gabe
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Default Que?

Oh, I earned my rat-bike, all right...I crashed it twice, and crushed two vertebrae in the process. And if I have the choice of new tires and clip-ons or a shiny paint-job, or over priced suzuki bodywork, I'll take the stuff that lets me go faster...



You don't think my bike is a 748, do you?
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Old 12-12-2001, 09:43 AM   #153
Lateshow
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Default Re: Honda 919

jim, spell check or proof read, it up to you..



I never mentioned "Metallic Piss Yellow" as its not on my list of favorites although its a better choice than flat asphalt.



If you're going to bag on my colors atleast list some better ones, or can we assume you have the same lack of vision that Honda has???
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Old 12-12-2001, 09:45 AM   #154
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Default Re: First Ride: Honda 919

You sportbike fiends at the motorcycle magazines all have the same stuff to say about today's much improved naked (or mostly naked) bikes - "let's put a set of clipons on and it'll be an excellent bike". Isn't that tortuous riding position one of the main things these bikes solve? Even though these bikes will rock, they're not sportbikes, they don't have the suspenions for it, so why try and make them a sportbike as opposed to just riding your sportbike?



Otherwise, I'd be interested in a 919 if I were in the market for a bike, but I'll just have to stick with my trusty Bandit for the time being (really wishing Suzuki had come out with an SV1000, although if Honda ever put a V4 in one of these bikes I'd belly up to the bar posthaste!).

Thanks for sharing,

fuzzyjim
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Old 12-12-2001, 09:46 AM   #155
BBD_Racing
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Default Re: Regarding performance numbers...

Please show me the equations wherein you get high force out of a motor with low torque but high RPM. Please do not include gearing effects, because I already mentioned their significance.



Try this: draw a free body diagram of a motorcycle and include the forces involved in acceleration (namely, wind drag, tire drag and force through the rear wheel). Apply Newton's laws and a bit of algebra. Now, somewhere in there explain how RPM or HP shows up. The only way to get HP into the equations is through the lens of gearing.



HP is useful as a way of seeing force with gearing effects somewhat applied. I say somewhat because if you take two bikes with 10K redlines, the gearing will be pretty similar, even though one may be biased towards the top of the rev range.



Now then, if we start talking about absolute performance, all these bikes go out the window in favor of the supersports, so that statement is a red herring. Ditto the statement about rider skill.



As for simply living in the upper RPMs, well that's what I thought when I bought my F4. Doesn't work out because 10K RPM equates to illegal speeds almost all the time. To have the fun, you gotta deal with potential tickets. Hence, you don't go there that much. We therefore see the whole point of these bikes.



In summary, torque matters and HP is a synthesized number that helps us see the implications of torque, RPM and gearing.
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Old 12-12-2001, 09:49 AM   #156
Gabe
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Default OY! Such spoiled people...

Motorcycle consumers these days. Used to be, you had to customize a bike to get it just the way you wanted it. Now, every biker has his own idea of what a bike should be, and whines irrepressibly if he can't get it.



What are the OEM's to do? Made-to-order bikes at $7999 a piece? Right! As if!



101 Ponies not enough? Fine- Pipe, carbs, and cams from a 900RR will give you an extra 25, along with some head work. This motor has been pumped to 160+ hp!



Not enough wind protection? Add a little fairing, or a big fairing, or whatever! Seat too high? Custom shock linkage, drop the forks. Don't like the color? An hour of prep and $300 at Earl Scheib and it can be any color you like.



Too heavy? Get out the sawz-all, Ti fasteners, aftermarket exhaust (a 4-1 will save 20 pounds, at least) and go to town. Put on a racing tailsection. My 500 Ascot started at 380 pounds, now it's 290 with a gallon of gas. Get creative.



Bars too high? Clip-ons, clubmans, or just lower bars will do the trick. And ditch those ugly frigging mirrors! There should be a law against those goofy chrome mirrors most naked bikes seem to come with.



So you'll shell out some dough- but that's what you gotta do to make something fit you. Remeber a motorcycle is a peice of sporting goods equipment, and needs to be set up to suit the owner's body and riding style.



So I (again) applaud Honda for making a "basic" bike that is cheap to buy and easy to customize- the way it should be!
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Old 12-12-2001, 09:55 AM   #157
BBD_Racing
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Default Re: Chopping the HP...typical



Here, here. I'm with you.



So is Aprilia. they are planning on building a naked Mille R and LEAVING THE ENGINE ALONE. It'll be expensive, but awesome.
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Old 12-12-2001, 09:57 AM   #158
Lateshow
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Default staying up late

jim, I do stay up late, but not too late. Isn't that a subjective thing???



I guess we shouldn't expect to hear much more from you as it seems you have very little of import, to impart to this board.



You've obviously not been enlightened as to the beauty and quality that are both present in today's finest custom paint work. The candy in the paint isn't the kind you eat, rather its a luxurious, rich shimmer and shine, that seems to "come alive" when in the sun.



Most importantly you seem to have missed the point that Honda did as well. Namely, that they had the opportunity to make a big splash on the MC market with the release of their new machine. Rather they decided to copy the paint scheme from the Ducati Monster and to add insult to injury its the only color available!!! This is a blunder of imense proportions, as was your feeble attempts to respond to my thesis on paint options
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Old 12-12-2001, 10:01 AM   #159
metal
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Default Re: Regarding performance numbers...

First of all, I think talking performance when it comes to standards/naked bikes/all-rounders is silly. The thing is, all of them are made with compromises in mind, because the target buyers have compromises in mind for what they want. So when one bike is faster than another, something was improved at the expense of performance. There are lots of such trade-offs: reliability vs power, comfort vs ground clearance and aerodynamics, stability vs responsiveness, cost vs nice suspension, cost vs light weight, and on and on. There are a zillion possible combinations of this to match market demands and outright performance is just one of dozens of factors. If all you want is performance, buy an uncompromised performance vehicle, wich neither 919 or ZRX is. But even when you get into uncompromised performance, power is not everything, so you still have all sorts of tradeoffs. The more exacting your demands are ("I want something that goes fast" vs "I need more stability in turn 9 in dry conditions"), the clearer the optimum equipment and setup becomes.



I currently only have my two race bikes (an F3 and an EX500). But even when I find myself on a street bike, I still use the throttle like on the track, so to answer your question, yes, I keep it around redline. I do agree with the notion that big bore multi's and twins like SV650 and up make for really nice reliable, easy-to-ride street bikes. What I was talking about was maximum possible horsepower output, not performance under normal riding conditions. If you wanna talk about what bikes do when people ride them to work, talking numbers is useless because you're not maxing it out anyway. I just personally don't like bikes that are tuned for broad power bands because I'm really used to linear rise of power all the way to just shy of redline. That's my personal preference though, just like someone else's preference is lots of low end grunt, or a particular noise the thing makes, or the lack of engine braking, or lots of engine braking, or what have you. The beauty of bikes is that there's everything out-there for everyone's tastes and for the amount of performance and technology we get, it's cheap too. I'm so glad I'm not into sports cars.
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Old 12-12-2001, 10:04 AM   #160
BBD_Racing
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Default Re: Naked bikes?

The FZ1 is something like SEVENTY POUNDS HEAVIER than an R1. That is the problem I have. I can stand a little more weight, maybe 15-20 lbs. But seventy is egregious.



I keep hoping somebody will just leave all the cool tech and the high performance intact, but make it comfy.



The planned Aprilia I've been seeing does that.
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