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Old 11-27-2001, 02:41 PM   #171
Jack_R750
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Default Re: Highsiding and big bikes

You know, I spent a year learning the basics on GPX250 (Ninja 250 in US, I suppose). I crashed 5 times, mostly highsided, pushing the bike too hard, having the smallest ride, and feeling like I have to prove I'm on par with bigger bikes. My most damaging accident, tearing my right knee PCL, I did stopping from 60 km/h, and I was riding 5 km/h on impact with my friend's back wheel. I must have been a genius to actually hit it, he didn't even feel anything out of order, just a bike jumping a bit forward. I fell on a right side and extended the knee to protect hell-I-still-don't-know-what. The rest you can imagine.

Against all advises, I bought an old GSX-R750 91', in exceptional shape, very improved in power and handling. I never ran into serious accident in almost 2 years I was riding it (one slide, mistaking oil patch for asphalt in the dark, 20 km/h). I never felt any lack of power (dynoed at 115 crank/105 rear wheel). I never used the power available, riding mostly below 9000 RPM. I learned how to properly lean a bike, and on this high-weight-centered bike (and mine was higher than usual because of its setup) I scraped the rubber almost off the edges of my rear wheel, and the roads in my country suck badly and no track is anywhere closer than 4000 km. I wouldn't change it to the smaller/bigger/more powerful, because I didn't need anything more, and didn't think that the investment (and a pricey one) is worth it. Now the bike is gone (long story), and hopefully in a near time I'll have a lot and will be able to afford any bike. My choice fell on CBR900 98'. So, am I included in the "liter mania" you're talking about? And yes, I have this stupid dream of pulling a wheelie going 120 km/h, which is a bit easier on a big displacement bike. But don't you think I want to live after it? I doubt if I'll use the CBR's power much, maybe torque much more, and you don't need horses to achieve a good lean angle.. the road won't take a good acceleration blast afterwards anyway.. I don't buy the bike for its power, and I don't think I'll be modding it for power either. But I don't mind having 120+ horsepower option, since I'm confident I'll use it when I'll be ready to survive..

And, BTW, somehow since the old Gixxer, I never felt I need to prove anything to anyone.. maybe I just passed the right age?

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Old 11-27-2001, 03:01 PM   #172
Jack_R750
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Default Re: Buell XB9R Firebolt reader feedback

As I posted somewhere above, IMHO, the main marketing target for the Buell is the streetfighter crowd. Torque is fine, but the figures aren't approaching equal displacement bikes, as I know them. Horsepower is lagging way behind, even if we lay that off. The point is I don't see Buell competing with Fazer (FZ-1)/Bandit 1200S (as a tourer)/ the likes of them. And again, IMHO, as a streetfighter, it's supposed to thrill - the power/torque being major part in it. You see this bike as a sport-tourer, for putting many miles on, easily maintained, comfortable ride?? Especially with it's tiny tank (in the frame, yes)? For some reason, I don't think so.

I don't remember the 10,000 km procedures in my garage taking more than 8-9 hours.. That includes valve adjustments (which don't require the engine to be disassembled, only the cover removed, as far as I remember, on inline 4 at least). Not everyone works on a bike at home, and it's not the main goal for developer, shouldn't be.

And I don't race, since in my country I don't have a racetrack.. That leaves me with an urge to get up early Saturday morning, call some buddies, and go ride the nuts off myself (not the bike, since I still couldn't use all it was capable of), before the cages appear on the roads and spoil the fun. I hope you're better .
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Old 11-27-2001, 03:46 PM   #173
Jack_R750
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Default Re: Buell XB9R Firebolt reader feedback

A 100th time someone mentiones pushrods and BMW/Chevy/whatever. Just have to interrupt. Sorry in advance .

Cagiva Raptor has ~105 bhp (rear wheel), ~72 ft/lbs torque, and beautiful styling. V-Raptor has outstanding styling. Liquid cooled V-twin.

Monster S4 went the liquid cooled way - for power and torque. Uglied the engine, but got the job done.

These are Firebolt's class bikes. BMW makes different animals for different things, but no streetfighters and sportbikes. And their engines don't qualify as high performance, either.

So - the point is: since Hercules uses good old propeller motors, why shouldn't F15 use the same ones? Well, NO, because different designs are for different things! People love V-Max, which handles like sh!t and scared the guts out of me when I rode it, and even more when my friend rode it with me riding behind. People love Raptor (and good old TL1000S) for the torquey motor, and it's a great handling bike. I don't think the point of this bike is to be judged by "enough" or "ridability" - it's about excitement, the more the better (just not too much!!! Gabe had a good discussion on that above).

And the major point being - NOBODY tried to judge the bike as "bad" for not having enough engine. It is a good bike, in my opinion, though I won't buy one - I like pure faired sportbikes (all displacements) much more. But it could be better, given a better engine, even though many will love it as it is, I'm sure.

The last point - in my opinion, for what it offers, it's heavily overpriced, partly due to that mentioned lacking power. The sound doesn't justify that! And I can bet Raptor with good race cans sounds like music, too.

Sorry Monster fans, for mentioning Raptor as a basis for comparison, it's just that it won many comparos, and the fact that if I had V-Raptor available in my country, I'd throw sportbikes away and buy one!
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Old 11-27-2001, 04:50 PM   #174
Gabe
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Default Yep, Apples to Apples, etc.

I think what you're trying to say is that a motor is a motor- more power does not automatically mean better.



Today I test-rode a '96 ZX-9 for the shop I work at. (we have to ride the bikes for sale to keep them at their prime, right? It's not my fault the '9 needed an extra 20 minutes- it had a weak battery...) This thing has a MONSTER engine. I mean, insane! It feels like a big v-twin under 8k, but then, hoo-boy! Insanity! The thing leaps like a scalded cat, and then you're doing 120!



But I didn't really like it- I mean, it's fun, in an immidiate-gratification kind of way, but it's just too much. Intimidating. It's not bad, and I'm sure plenty of guys enjoy that kind of thing, but not for me.



Give me motor that's smooth, responsive, and torquey- without having to rev to 8k to get it. My SV feels good like that from 2500 on up, and just gets better.



If the Firebolt gives clean, predictable power, with lots of low-down torque and not too much shaking, then it's a winner in my book, even if it "only" sets 80 or so horsepower to the pavement. Do we forget that the most feared motorcyle of the mid 20th century, the Vincent Black Shadow, put out about 70 HP? That's about the same as my "beginners" SV650!



So motors should not be judged by pure output- but by the quality and usability of power delivery. Why do dirtbikes use single-cylinder motors? Ease of use and power delivery. And that's why I think motors with too much power are wasted on roadbikes. I think this bike will be a winner- and hopefully others will follow. C'mon Honda, update the hawk!
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Old 11-27-2001, 11:02 PM   #175
CarsSuck
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Default Ducati monster?? Vmax????????? Give me a break.

Have you looked at a dyno chart for a 900 monster, at the rear wheel? Buell's X1 is already a more serious sportbike than a monster (yes, I'd still rather have the monster, but that's not the point). The monster may convince many people they're on a "streetfighter", but it's really just a good sporty standard. It's a great bike, but it's not a streetfighter or a sport bike (at least not a very serious sport bike). We don't really know if the chassis on a monster is better than a firebolt's, but the monster certainly has good chassis geometry and stiffness. It's just mellow geometry--It's also a lot longer and not made to be track sharp. I think it makes a lot more sense to classify a bike by it's geometry and wheelbase than by the trivial fact that it doesn't have a full fairing. Do you understand that the 52" is 3" shorter than the stubby tweaky little R6? Seems like you're talking more about the style than the ride. I like race reps, by the way, and never gave a damn if a bike had a full fairing or not since I'll take it off anyway. That's how you get a streetfighter, by the way, by stripping and modding a real race rep, not buying a monster or "naked bike" and giving it a paint job. The Vmax has nothing to do with anything, I don't know why you brought that up, and please don't tell me you're one of those people that think a Vmax can be a streetfighter (in it's own frame, anyway) just because it has a big motor. As far as the 1999 ZX-6R's brakes, they didn't have any feel. Just mush and slop compared to the Buell's. I wasn't looking to like the Buell better, I had fully planned on liking the Kaw better in most ways. The Kaw brakes felt like they had a little more power than the Buell's, but not much more--and no feel. So they suck. They felt like 80's brakes, not serious at all. And this was a factory demo bike, not a dealer's. The Buell felt dialed in for a 130mph sporty street bike, but having drastically better brake feel than a race rep is just a fault of the race rep. Also, the suspension on the ZX-6R was soft and mushy and made the Buell feel more serious, even though that's just a setup issue.
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Old 11-28-2001, 01:20 AM   #176
spindizzy
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Default Re: Ducati monster?? Vmax????????? Give me a break.

You seem to have forgotten about the Monster S4 with the 916 motor - that has 118hp at the rear wheel. As far as the 99 6R the one you had must have needed serious brake bleeding as they had the best brakes in the supersport class that year.
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Old 11-28-2001, 05:03 AM   #177
spindizzy
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Default Re: Highsiding and big bikes

Most likely is that he hit the rear brakes and lost the rear end - which is why you do not touch the rear brakes when braking into a corner. If you are using the front brakes properly you will not have enough traction to use the rear brake with any real effect other than locking up the rear tyre. All the rear braking that you need is supplied by engine braking.


A skilled rider rather than an experienced rider would know this. Riding for years and reinforcing the same wrong ideas is not an ideal situation. You should not touch the rear brake in an emergency situation unless the road is wet! And if you're on a current sportsbike with sport compund tyres probably not even then.
What you have described is rider error and could have happened on any bike but it does seem that your friend was riding a bike he did not have the skills to handle. What he had was a crash caused by him losing control of his bike - neither a low side or high side crash. You cannot have a highside from braking.
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Old 11-28-2001, 08:40 AM   #178
SpeedyR
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Default Re: 130hp...

The hayabusa comment was all my own (as was the rest of the quote- I can't remember exactly what he said, but it was something like the "feel like you are going fast or go fast" part.. sorry for the misinterpretation...



I respect anyone who rides. I dont' care what you ride as long as you go ride. I see a lot of busa's in the mountains and a fair amount of them dont know what a corner is. Some do though!!! I also have a harley and it's fun for what it is, but it's not a sport bike in the mountains..



I think it will be interesting to take a buell for a test ride and see how it works. I was ready to be impressed a few years ago when I rode the S-1 but came away not liking it... maybe they'll hit the mark this time?



you can get more hp out of anything but some bikes it's easier. A full system, jet kit, dyno tune on the R6 and you're lucky to pick up 5hp. I would pretty much guarantee that an exhaust and powercommander on a buell will pick up a lot of power and also drop some more weight...



either way, it'll be something new and different and I applaud Buell for going out on a limb to make a bike so different..



jeff

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Old 11-28-2001, 08:49 AM   #179
SpeedyR
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Default Re: Buell XB9R Firebolt reader feedback

you live in a nice area... warwoman road, buck creek, etc....



do you ride a buell or were you just wanting to ride with someone one a buell?? I've ridden in the mountains and on the track a lot the past few years and have yet to see more than one guy that I can remember that was having fun and tearing it up on a buell in the mountains... maybe I just need to get out more often..



I'll be curious to see them when they come out..



Jeff

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Old 11-28-2001, 08:57 AM   #180
SpeedyR
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Default Re: You obviously don

everything that i've heard and read about people who have met him is that he's a great guy. I do know that there's not much chance of you "passing eric in a turn" unless he was sitting on the side of the road watching!!!



and for whomever was talking about 90 degree twins much not have been paying much attention to the Aprilia bikes... they are a 60 degree twin and they seem to be doing well. The only advanage that a 90 degree twin has in balance. If you can balance the 60 degree (which aprilia has done w/ counterbalancers), the engine architecture is better for a motorcycle. The narrower angle allows you to position the engine better to give you more options in the chassis as in overall length, engine further forward, etc.



oh well if I were so smart, I'd be designing bikes..



Jeff

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