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TheFox 11-21-2001 07:42 AM

Yeah, uh huh
I'd like to see WHERE on the curve the power for both are made before I make a decision like that.

jackbird 11-21-2001 08:48 AM

Never gave it much of a thought.
My impression was that he was the living pinnacle of stuck up, like the most extreme Harley poser you've ever seen, to the third power. I did like his bikes more than I liked him, but mine was much faster and since I set it up for my twisty home road it handled better too.

I wondered what they did for curvy roads where he was from.

He's still too stuck up to ever talk to my ilk. I'd tell you what I did to my Harley's engine and suspension if I thought you meant me well or if I was trying to sell it.

M2CYCLONE 11-21-2001 10:50 AM

Re: Times?
From Brad's comments on, it's faster than a stock X-1. X-1's are in the high 11's, 112mph approx. It's not going to approach the et's of an F4i, Gsxr-600, etc. It will feel different with the torque. It shouldn't take much work (polish & port the heads) to get the hp up to the mid 90's & then it will be similar. My M2 put's out 95hp (stock it was about 75) with a little bit of head work & a larger carb. Most of the Firebolts that will be sold, probably will not remain stock.

M2CYCLONE 11-21-2001 11:00 AM

Re: Buell XB9R Firebolt reader feedback
The Firebolt is a "slight variation" of the 900SS? Why do you say that? Both are unique & both use air cooled engines. But, there seems to be quite a bit of difference between both. I own an M2. That's closer to the 900SS probably the the Firebolt. But, it's still quite a bit different. The 900SS feels substantially different than any Buell I've ridden. Not necessarily worse or better. Depends on your preference. The Duc felt somewhat slower turning than my M2 even though they have similar geomety & the Duc has an even steeper rake than mine. But the engines felt completely different & aren't similar at all except for they are twins. The Firebolt is quite a bit different from either in it's geometry. I don't see too many similarities.

M2CYCLONE 11-21-2001 11:10 AM

Re: Buell XB9R Firebolt reader feedback
With just a bit of engine work, it'll be easy to get 95 to 100 or more hp out of the Firebolt. After all, Nallin is getting over 50hp on the Blast. Brad at rode the Firebolt at Vegas & said it was faster in the straights (let alone the corners) than stock X-1's.

M2CYCLONE 11-21-2001 11:18 AM

Re: Be American - buy American
I don't think rust has been a prevalent problem with Buells. That demo bike has seen some weather & not been taken care of. Mine hast rusted, I ride in wet Florida, have over 16k miles on it, & it has never left me stranded. Reliability issues tend to center around gaskets which are quick to change & tend to not leak if you install them correctly. Recalls tend to center around something that has broken in 1 bike out of 10k plus.

KPaulCook 11-21-2001 11:46 AM

Re: Buell XB9R Firebolt reader feedback
Ducatti 748R is a baby Duck right :) Against a real Duck liter bike no contest. 130 HP yeah right in your dreams. In my mirrors dude. I love the concept but I can't justify spending thousands more for less HP and reliability. I'll stick with my Ninja for now. Other folks are right ---Maybe when Buell sticks in a 90 degree water cooled twin. But that's a Suzuki SV 650 or TL10000 or a Ducatti right. Every bike I have seen broken down on the side of freeway has always been a HD or Buell. [i]If the had 3 year warranties and free towing maybe I would buy one. [i]

KPaulCook 11-21-2001 12:17 PM

Buell owners reviews site

Gabe 11-21-2001 12:31 PM

Big Power=You Will Die
So here it is, November, and it's the third year in a row that I've personally witnessed a guy on a liter class sportbike die.

The first two years it was at trackdays. both times, Sears Point in November, both times, R1's. Experienced, older riders, both times. One guy was in his 60's! Not squids. Just coming out of turns, and then highsiding. Killed on impact.

I was signed up for another November trackday, and what happens on the Sunday Morning Ride in West Marin two days before my trackday? A guy on a GSXR-1000 (at least that was different) gets suckered into following his buddy too fast into a decreasing-radius turn on Highway One. He had accelerated from the last turn because they saw my friends gaining on them on "slow" bikes- an Aprillia Pegaso and a VFR. When he saw the road "dissapear", he nailed the brakes and highsided. He was flung off the bike down a 40 foot cliff, where I think he broke his neck.

I read his internet postings- he was a loud proponent of the raw excitement that only a liter-sized engine can provide. He was alos an older (39) experienced rider who had a ZX-6 for a long time and also had done AMA moto-cross in his youth. I can't stop thinking about the 50-foot long skid marks, (on a very twisty, two-lane road posted at 35 mph) and his scuffed helmet dripping with blood and spinal fluid.

At the track day, there were mostly R1's and GSXR 1000. It seems like that's all you see at track days this year. I wondered if one of those guys was going to get it, even though my November quota was seemingly filled. I rode my POS '82 FT500 racer, ( and I was worried about being in the expert group with such fast company.

Well, no worries, because aside from 5 or 6 genuinely fast guys, I had no problem staying ahead of these guys at Sears Point. Sometimes they would show me a wheel at the end of a straight, but I would just cover my line into the turn and not see them again. My hat is off to the fast guys on the superbikes, but I couldn't bear telling even the fastest guy (on a ZX-12) that he would barely finish mid-pack in a 500 twins race (EX500's and GS500's).

So helmets off to Erik Buell for trying to set a new paradigm in sportbikes by recognizing that the first word is "sport", not "acceleration." Riders with big power tend to park it in the corners and blast down the straights- a riding style that requires almost no skill, no athletic ability, and no space for developing skills either. I was sore as hell after 3 hours of solid track time- I wonder if any of the liter guys even broke a sweat?

Is that a sport? To fly from turn to turn like a monkey on a NASA rocket sled? In my mind, excellent handling is what endears a bike to me- regardless of output. I want to try the Derbi GPR50, and my favorite bike was the 45hp MuZ Skorpion.

But I understand that sportbikes are predominantly an expression of young male macho-energy in the US, and that's what the manufacturers make the bikes for. It's too bad, because once you've built bikes with ultimate power- and I think we're there- where can you go?

I think the answer is handling, and this bike is a step in the right direction. If it sells, maybe the other manufacturers will copy it, and maybe sportbikers will actually treat motorcycling as a sport.

Rayvan3 11-21-2001 12:33 PM

Re: VFR not a sportbike
This is re: your "tuned to the max, not this tuned for more torque crapola" line:

Everything built for the street is "tuned for torque". Otherwise it'd run like a friggin F1 car and stall at the line unless you rev it to 10,000 RPM before you even think about releasing the clutch.

Not a vehicle I'd like to ride on the street.


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