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Old 11-02-2001, 05:52 AM   #41
starvingstudent
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Default Re: 2001 Power Cruisers Reader Feedback

Harley and Harley owners WANT exclusivity. Same with BMW. Same with the Italian marques. This is one major reason that they keep supply down.



Heck, for the V-Rod's MSRP (not even counting markup!) I could buy a Magna 750, an EX500, AND a DR-Z250. Not too shabby, eh?
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Old 11-02-2001, 05:54 AM   #42
starvingstudent
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Default Re: 2001 Power Cruisers Reader Feedback

Too bad you didn't snatch up a Triumph Thunderbird Sport while they were being made. It sounds like a great bike for you.
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Old 11-02-2001, 05:59 AM   #43
NickdaBrick
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Default Re: 2001 Power Cruisers Reader Feedback

From what I can tell, the real winner of this comparo is. . .



The Yamaha Roadstar Warrior!



R1 brakes should be just as good as the Beef Steak items. Aluminum frame and belt drive should equal better handling than the shaft drive bikes. Price right in line with the Kawasaki and the Honda, and way below the Harley. As much torque as the VTX should make it accelerate with the V-Max, at least stoplight to stoplight.



When do you get to test one?
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Old 11-02-2001, 06:00 AM   #44
starvingstudent
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Default Re: might I also add that...

The rankings themselves are often arbitrary. On the other hand, I LOVE comparisons because, after a while, every "first ride" for a given genre is exactly the same.



ANY cruiser's first ride review: "Comfortable seating, moderate but not objectionable vibes, moderate power, not so much ground clearance." That doesn't help a potential buyer one bit. Once the buyer has decided on a genre, they want to know the relative differences if comfort, the relative differences in engine feel/performance, the relative differences in handling, and the relative differences in ground clearance. This is why shootouts are the MOST important part of reviewing motorcycles.
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Old 11-02-2001, 06:02 AM   #45
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Default Update!

According to a competing online publication, the Warrior makes MORE torque than the VTX.
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Old 11-02-2001, 06:04 AM   #46
blip
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Default Re: might I also add that...

Haru, you're clearly far too enlightened to understand the childish antics of MO: Comparisons are fun! Speed! Glory! Chicks! Geez, after years of reading MO, get with the program!



Actually, it's the easiest way to test bikes. Just doing single bike reviews, you don't ride back-to-back, and one tends to not really notice relative (to the genre) features or flaws, you just go with the flow and enjoy the ride. It's not until you get a bunch of bikes together that you tend to see things in better perspective, often glaringly so.



Shootouts, as you know, are the most-read (by far) items in MO. I guess we're a competitive society... they are the most fun to do, too, so it's always going to be a staple of MO.



The OEMs are incredibly supportive of direct comparisons these days. Many always were, but not all. It's a good trend, encouraging open discussion. I think they're realized that the only bad outcome is not being included at all. By making a shootout, you're at the top of the field already...



All that said, we won't back down from our judgements of which is the overall best bike for the average rider, but you are even more correct in saying that these are just the ramblings of a bunch of guys, and everyone should get what they like.



On a side note, we are trying to be much more sensitive to the fact that we're jaded veterans of riding-everything-that's-new-and-great whenever we want, and with this article, we did give extra time/space to pointing out that the Kawy is the best for newbie riders and those that Fear The Power (wierdos!).



Reader feedback absolutely amazes me. This was our strangest test to date, we were sure we were going to get absolutely brutalized in feedback, but this is turning out to be a pretty rational forum... odd.
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Old 11-02-2001, 06:12 AM   #47
schipwreck
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Default Re: 2001 Power Cruisers Reader Feedback

OK - good comparo. I liked it.



But - jeez, guys, can you get "it's" and "its" straight? "It's" is a contraction- "it is." "Its" is possessive. It's not hi's, it's not her's, and it's not it's. It's his, hers, its.



Here's a handy mnemonic you can tape to your monitor -



"It's disturbing when a dog licks its nads."



Tell you what - if you fix all of the misbegotten "it's" in the article by Monday, I'll cut you a check for five bucks.



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Old 11-02-2001, 06:31 AM   #48
mandrake_the_mollusk
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Default Maybe because it's comfortable and practical...

many people think of the Valkyrie as either a "naked tourer" or "touring cruiser" depending on which model and your point of view. Most people don't think of it as a "power cruiser" or "muscle bike" per se even if it technically meets the definition. In its own special category it would likely win any performance shootout because the only competition would be certain big Harley models which have less hp but like the Valkyrie are in that small niche of "comfortable bikes that still look like a motorcycle."



One thing ALL of these bikes tested have in common is that you wouldn't want to go very far on them, at least not without spending a ton of money on aftermarket enhancements. Not so the Valkyrie, which is in an entirely different category because it's actually useful.
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Old 11-02-2001, 06:54 AM   #49
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Default Re: 2001 Power Cruisers Reader Feedback

The point of my above post was that Harley IS NOT keeping supply down -- they have increased production dramatically in an attempt to meet supply. Two years ago that outsold Honda in the US despite competing only in the cruiser/touring market -- Honda is much more diverse. This is not the way a company that wants to keep supply down acts. One of the reasons HD would not want to keep supply down is that they gain nothing from price-gouging at the dealer level -- that is straight money for the dealer. Harley, like any other company, is about making money. If they can sell more motorcycles at a given price, they make more money (unless that price is below the cost of production, which we all know it is not). The V-Rod and its successors will not meet supply in the near future; dealers will gouge away until Harley can increase production.



Additionally, I don't think that most Harley riders that actually ride their motorcycle care much about exclusivity of Harley ownership -- many Harley riders will ride with anyone, though we will try to convert you (just as many riders of other brands try to convert others). In Harley circles, you gain exclusivity by the way you customize your ride.



This is why many Japanese motorcycles can be bought below MSRP -- they actually exceed demand at a given price point with their supply. Japanese motorcycles like the RC51 that were not produced in large enough volume to meet demand initially were gouged by dealers and by owners in the "used" market.



I would not buy a V-Rod now. I would wait around a few years until supply increases. Of course I would never buy a V-rod because I don't like cruisers -- I ride a Buell now and my two Harleys were both touring bikes. Like those that bought Honda S-2000s, PT Cruisers and VW Bugs when they first came out at inflated prices, those that buy the V-Rod at ridiculous prices will find they could have had it for a lot less if they just waited. For some with deep pockets, this is not an issue. So be it.
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Old 11-02-2001, 06:55 AM   #50
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Default True about the sporty

H-D makes both Standard and Cruiser varieties of Sportster. They're both paint shakers that leak oil.
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