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Old 11-03-2001, 07:57 AM   #131
starvingstudent
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Default Re: 2001 Power Cruisers Reader Feedback

Amen.
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Old 11-03-2001, 08:23 AM   #132
CarsSuck
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Default It wouldn't lose.

Disregarding price, the V-rod would've killed every other bike in this comparo. It even says it in the article, just very diplomatically. A Valkyrie would not smoke it. Given the Valk's almost 700 lbs they wouldn't be far off on weight, and the Vrod makes 10-14 hp more. For the record I don't like your post or the one you were responding to. I'm still surprised there are people lame enough to admit they buy a bike as a status symbol, and then still actually expect people to envy them. That they need this sort of attention from people they don't know is one thing, but that it's driven by price shows that the individual values himself by the dollar. That's just sad and pathetic textbook self esteem crap. I wouldn't assume anyone who bought a Vrod was that lame, I'd assume they really wanted the bike bad. There isn't anything like it on the market, and if you want it you have to pay. But then here's a guy admitting he wants expensive stuff because he's a sad loser. You on the other hand, seem to have a bit of the "shadow syndrome", where you have to attack anyone's decision to buy a harley. Really, this vrod thing won't get smoked by anything considered a cruiser. Even the Vmax will not actually smoke it, it will just beat it by a little bit, and the Vmax handles like absolute crap. I can't believe brent said it handled better than the vrod, he has to be insane.
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Old 11-03-2001, 08:46 AM   #133
Lateshow321
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Default The Confederate Hellcat is one awesome machine

What a styling coup!!!!!! Something completely original, sexy, eyecatching, and memorable!!!



I wish I could spend that much money on a Bike...maybe someday I'll get a clean used one with low miles, in perfect condition for a few thou...well a guy can dream a little can't he???



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Old 11-03-2001, 09:22 AM   #134
CarsSuck
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Default YOU are destroying American industry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First I have to say that I think many of the responses to your first post were a lot dumber than your post. You asked a legitimate question. There was a clear best bike here, and everyone knew it, but they picked the slowest--in a "power" cruiser comparo. Somehow HD never wins here, and it is crap. However, the comment about putting an American flag on an asian motorcycle is ridiculous. I don't have a flag on my bike, but if I wanted to support the chinese flag manufacturing industry like so many HD riders I wouldn't worry about the fact that 20 years ago my bike was manufactured in Japan. I'm an American, and I'll fly my nation's flag anywhere I choose.

Now on to what's really important--why it is YOU that is destroying American industry: This is not a socialist country. This is a capitalist country, and that's what once made American industry great. Now we have products that ARE NOT COMPETITIVE, and people saying we should buy them anyway to support them. We are still strong. American industry WILL survive if we refuse to buy the products we don't want. If we give an honest vote with our dollar, we will eventually get what we want made on our own soil. I think it's great that someone still makes a low tech product like a traditional big twin Harley, for people that want to deal with their motorcycles directly. Simplicity is good, and I'm glad these motorcycles don't just disappear. But that shouldn't be all we make. Despite all an HD's good qualities, the only thing really selling them right now is a fashion statement. The people making HD prosperous right now aren't working on their own bikes, they're just trying to be cool and look good. How long do you think that will last? How long can any fashion trend last? Even for people working on their own bikes, for anyone who wants even a basic level of performance, a heavy, low, 60hp two cylinder touring bike isn't going to do it. They shouldn't settle for a sportster, they should buy that bike with twice the performance for less money. To do anything else is unamerican, and will eventually DESTROY American industry truly. Then again, if the traditional heavyweight motorcycle is the type of bike you want, there's arguably nothing better than the HD.
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Old 11-03-2001, 09:35 AM   #135
CarsSuck
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Default But, Erik Buell has said he'd never use a watercooled

engine. Kevin Cameron wrote an article about it. Air cooling is superior if "designed right". Well so far it hasn't been designed right, I guess. But Erik Buell and Kevin Cameron both think it can be done. And I personally just hate motors that bleed green in all cases where there is a power equivalent air or oil cooled alternative.
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Old 11-03-2001, 09:56 AM   #136
schipwreck
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Default Re: 2001 Power Cruisers Reader Feedback

static: excellent post, dude. Spot-on. I hope the "Jap bike buyers are traitors" dipstick learns something, but I have the feeling his enthusiasm for education waned after quitting school in grade 9.
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Old 11-03-2001, 09:56 AM   #137
starvingstudent
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Default Re: YOU are destroying American industry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know, CarsSuck, I normally strongly disagree with your posts, but this one was RIGHT ON. When an American company (be it Harley, Buell, Victory, Confederate, or a new one) makes a bike that is inexpensive, lightweight, and gives me the performance and reliability that I want, I'll consider buying it. America is capitalist, and capitalism means competition. For someone who has no desire to own a "traditional heavyweight motorcycle," a Buell that perpetually breaks down, or German/Italian exotica, Japanese is currenly the way to go. But if Koreans, Germans, Russians, Guatemalans, or Americans built a motorcycle that was better suited to my desires and needs, I'd buy from them.



The way I see it, a blue-collar worker trying to feed their family in Japan or Russia is just as respectable as a blue-collar worker trying to feed their family in Milwaukee. So no company has the "moral higher ground."
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Old 11-03-2001, 10:04 AM   #138
jamesohoh7
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Default Re: Oh yeah, the shadow thing.

You apparently believe that someone at Harley (long ago...Mr. Harley or Mr. Davidson) said to themselves "HEY!, I'm going to build a bike just the way I like it, fresh from scratch... no influences at all... and I won't ever change a thing!"



I'm pretty sure it was more like... "hey, I kind of like this whole new motorcycle thing... some of those other bikes (Indians) are pretty nifty.. but I can do better! It'll still have a v-twin (yes, they started w/a single.. I know this) and look about the same as the others b/c you know, I can't expect to sell something that no one wants!.. BUT, it'll still be pretty cool." A much more reasonable interpretation I think.



I guess what I really just get tired of is the false notion that Harley supporters often spout to the effect that they 'invented' the motorcycle.. or even just the 'heavy standard' motorcycle. Hogwash. They certainly popularized it... more power to 'em... doesn't make them the 'owner' of the style... just the most successful implementor.



The fact that Japan, INC was able to dumb down its four-cylinder cruiser-type bikes (KZ1000LTD, various Hondas, Yamaha Midnight Special type bikes etc...) and come out with clunky, slow, loud v-twins and put them in big, heavy frames with bad brakes and then proceed to steal (at least some) customers from Harley very much validates the notion that the cruiser market is about a "look and feel" and less about 'a particular bike/a Harley' defining the segment.



Fast forward...



Harley has responed in part to the sport-bike revolution by building it's 'revolution' motor... which really ain't all that revolutionary. It adds little if any new technology. A fine motor, no doubt though... just like ALL the Italian and Japanese liquid v-twins.



Now that they've done this, Japan, INC is going to come out with cruiser-type bikes w/their sport-bike twins and who will be copying who, really?... Just b/c they change the frame the motor is in, does that make them a copy-cat (Japanese co's). If so, then hasn't Harley just copied Japan b/c most of the metric cruisers (which the VROD now is) are liquid cooled, multi-valve, OHC...



I don't fault Harley at all for what they've done or will do. I just wanted to point out that they are acting just like any other company... they do some research, they change their bikes, they enter new market segments when the mkt. research dictates this.



Why is that good for them, and bad for everyone else?.. oh yeah, the whole 'you have a Harley bias' thing...

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Old 11-03-2001, 10:07 AM   #139
grover750
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Default Rode a Harley for the first time...

in my life last weekend, a 2001 Dyna Wide Glide, with the Vance & Hines "in case you didn't see me I'll make sure you hear me" shotgun pipes.



I've never been a harley fan, but people always said my opinion was meaningless since I had never ridden one. So I rode one. I was impressed with the torque, for sure. Just crank and go. It sounds like you're really accelerating, but if you watch the speedometer, you're not. The stock seat was comfy (it should be, 98% if your weight is on it), but the feet out front riding position was retarded. Maybe it takes getting used to, but I wouldn't like to do any emergency manouvers with all my weight on my butt. I got the bike up to 95mph, it was pretty squirrely at that speed. It did lope along effortlessly at 55-70, though. The engine didn't seem to be working at all, which is a nice feeling to have.



Overall, it was more comfortable and powerful (I don't own any powerful bikes, so maybe I'm easily impressed) than I thought it would be, but there is still no way in h*ll that I'd spend $18000 on one. For that price, I could have a yellow '00 VFR800 AND a new CRF450 with 5 grand to spare. Someone needs to explain it to me, I guess I don't get it.



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Old 11-03-2001, 10:44 AM   #140
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Default afford vs. purchase...

"or don't want to spend the cash (which means you can't afford it)"



You're wrong on this. Too many people think that, because they spend the absolute maximum they can afford on anything they purchase (car, house, bike, etc), everyone else does. There are people in this world, myself included, that live below their means.



My dream bike is a brand new Aprilia Futura. It costs $14 grand, and I could afford it. What am I looking for? A '00 VFR800, which can be had for around 6 grand.



Don't assume that people who drive Miata's couldn't afford a Mercedes. Don't assume people who are riding mean streaks couldn't afford V-Rods. And, most importantly, don't assume people want your stuff just because you spent more on it.



grover750



"The key to financial independance is living below your means"



PS I'm surprised at the lack of criticism the V-Rod is getting for having foreign-made parts. The pistons, rods and crankshaft are made in Germany. Don't most Harley owners take immense pride in riding an all-american bike? I think I'll call the VRod a kraut rocket.



AND, Harley didn't even make the fuel injection system, it's a Bosch system. How much of a Harley is this bike?
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