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Old 11-02-2001, 01:18 PM   #91
CarsSuck
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Default A cruiser is a fake harley.

Softails count. Magnas don't, although the styling would make it kind of iffy if it weren't too ugly to actually look like a harley. If I put forward controls on my GS1100, it does not become a cruiser. It's a standard. What else can you say a cruiser is but a fake harley? Some look like choppers, and not all choppers are harleys. So you could say they're not so much fake harleys as they are fake choppers--except for the floorboard brigade. Fake fatbob tanks, big fenders, floorboards, and it's called a cruiser--definitely not trying to be a chopper. It's trying to be an FL. Nope, they're fake harleys. Really I don't consider the V-rod a cruiser, or any of HD's legitimate big twins (Dynas, etc--any non softail). They are traditional heavyweight motorcycles, that's all. Sportsters are middleweights, or you can call them a standard, even though that word wasn't invented when the sportster was. Lots of bikes are made to be cruisers (such as vulcans, ace shadows, etc) that don't have forward controls. None of the bikes with floorboards have forward controls, and they have pretty plain upright seating positions. They may have a little bit more relaxed riding positions than the average UJM, but they're still within range of a standard. As far as I'm concerned fours aren't cruisers. BMWs, Guzzis, and Valkeries also are not cruisers. They are all legitimate heavyweight motorcycle designs with a legitimate history and design, and aren't fake harleys. But the kind of people who buy cruisers would never accept this sort of definition, so I don't care. But I like to see some legitimate heavyweight designs offering real choices that aren't crap like vulcans and shadows, and that have real advantages of their own. As far as I'm concerned they're not cruisers, but if they help pull business from the cruisers I'll keep shut and let people call them whatever they want. A design that's made to be used for real, not just "cruised", means that motor will have real advantages--if it's hard to work on, it will at least have power to make up for it. Liquid cooling on these vulcan and shadow type bikes is a scam. They make less hp than an HD with twice the valves and twice the parts to break, they're harder to work on, and they're barely more reliable. Big piles of unnecessary complexity disguised as simplicity--how much sense does that make? Why buy such a simple, heavy, slow motorcycle if you're not getting the confidence that you can easily deal with any problems that arise, not to mention rebuilding it 10 times over with easy to find parts as it gets passed to your grandkids and great grandkids? An HD, a BMW, a Guzzi, a Valkerie--they all have proven motors that weren't designed to look like they're something they're not, (while using features that will sound like a good idea to buyers who don't know what the point of them is in the first place), but the HD/BMW/Guzzi/Valks will let the bikes be called cruisers because it works with a popular market.
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Old 11-02-2001, 01:38 PM   #92
granny
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Default Re: 2001 Power Cruisers Reader Feedback

You didn't read the post. There are few product that are made completely in America. For example, a substantial number of components in "American Made" automobiles are not manufactured in America. Sticking your head in the sand won't change the fact that the economy is global. Additionally, I have no issue with your choice of motorcycle but the word "best" can take on many meanings. I don't think that BMW, Suzuki or Honda give up anything to any one.
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Old 11-02-2001, 01:38 PM   #93
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Default This reminds me of the time...

MO picked the R1 over the GSXR1000. Remember that? Ha ha ha ha ha ha.,....ahhh... So was the Harley to hard to ride for you guys, like that GSXR?
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Old 11-02-2001, 01:41 PM   #94
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Default Re: Victory?

Just got the new issues of Rider and Cycle World (sorry to name names MO), and in one of them (not handy at the moment, sorry!), they have a blurb on the new Victory SC w/more power etc... looks like they fixed up some of the styling too! New motor supposed to make like 25% more power.



You Viccy fans will like it I think.



-James
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Old 11-02-2001, 01:42 PM   #95
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Default Re: 2001 Power Cruisers Reader Feedback

MO has really dropped the ball on this one as the V

-max definitely does not belong in this category. Yes it is a power cruiser, but virtually unchanged for over a decade. The other three bikes are new models. so where the hell is the new Road Star? Unbelievable!
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Old 11-02-2001, 01:52 PM   #96
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Default Re: 2001 Power Cruisers Reader Feedback

I'm sure you are referring to the RSWarrior 'bout the air-cooled bit of MO's preferred bike b/c the Kawi is liquid and 4-valve, ohc... just like the Harley. The fins are for show. I think the Warrior is also 4-valve.. just pushrods and rocker-arms though. Not pickings nits.. well, yes I am



I do agree with the core of your post.. it's kind of funny how it worked out. Harley, in a massive (or not so, depending on your alignment) dose of irony gets it's 'hot-rod' power monger out-done by a weaker, apparently less sophisticated (though it's really not) bike. But, I think they pointed out that the overall product (the 'beef steak') was a better bike, despite its lack of power. The brakes and handling got good marks too... and it's very affordable.



Harley will own this market if they can somehow get their dealers to sell the VROD at MSRP (which I think is still kind of high, but at least close to reasonable). I personally love the looks and 'tech of the VROD... would try to buy one, but that price.. that's a major downer. For that money, I could have an MV-Agusta F4 and quite possibly the 'beef steak' too (if reports of VROD price gouging are as high as I've heard.. $30K!)



Talk about bang for the buck!... super-exclusive MV (champion of all drool-fests!) and the shoot-out winning Kawi.



-James
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Old 11-02-2001, 01:58 PM   #97
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Default Re: 2001 Power Cruisers Reader Feedback

I dig those Confererates! Saw one a while back.. major drool-factor! I agree though... when Japan, INC decides to 'copy' Harley (Ha!.. somehow, people will say they are doing so if they put liquid 4-valvers in their cruisers despite a long history of already doing so!) and put their best sport-bike engines in a cruiser, people will come running.



(sorry for the extended parenthetical remarks! )



Actually, I think the V-Max came out right about the time the 'stones were being awakened/dug-up for their first of several "rebirths"!.. those guys have been around a LOT longer than the v-max, though it doesn't seem like it!.. lol! (sorry 'stones fans.. I like 'em too.. only the old stuff though)



-James
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Old 11-02-2001, 02:25 PM   #98
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Default Re: 2001 Power Cruisers Reader Feedback

I dunno. I've never seen the appeal of cruisers, but a couple weeks ago I rented a Road King to see how the Harley half lives. What I found was a bike that encourages a very different sort of riding to what I do on my Ducati ST4. The RK made me want to just relax and cruise along, enjoying the scenery. My ST4 says "nice scenery, but let's make it blur".



I guess it might come down to whether you see the RK as a cruiser or a tourer.
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Old 11-02-2001, 02:27 PM   #99
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Default Re: 2001 Power Cruisers Reader Feedback

I have to say that I respect that you stuck with your process for determining the winner, even though it got unpopular results, results YOU didn't expect. Good for you.



I still like the V-Rod the best of all those - but I haven't ridden any of them, so what do I know?
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Old 11-02-2001, 02:29 PM   #100
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Default Re: Too bad it

Yeah, they're gonna sell a lot of aftermarket pipes for the Warrior. Yamaha had a couple of 'em on display at the Del Mar Mile, and that can looks even bigger in person than it does in photos. I figured it was a housing for concealed anti-CHP missiles!
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