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Old 10-24-2001, 11:50 AM   #71
luvmyvfr
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Default Good points, all!

I wouldn't WANT to get hit by anybody, I know of an instance where a cachectic little old lady broke the jaw of an associate of a co-worker of mine.



I'll bet I could outrun George Forman, so I don't worry too much about that.



I agree, very few of us can handle our bikes like they are capable of being handled, no argument there.



As far as strength, I would say that it does not take much strength to operate a motorcycle at speed, but it is more so at low speeds, especially with heavy motorcycles, and it was this scenario that I was referring.



I also agree with you, as I later posted, about reflexes varying depending on the person. I would only say that I think most (nearly all) people's reflexes diminish as they age, so whatever they were used to (everybody still thinks there 20, right? That's what I hear people say, "I still think I'm 20/I feel like I'm 20), at any rate, even if they have great reflexes at 40, they had better ones at 20, so they ride like they could have 20 years ago. I'm not really saying this is the case, but it is possible, and an interesting point.



As far as couch potatoes, I don't think that and athleticsm have much to do with each other when it comes to reflexes and reaction times. I know plenty of chubby teenagers, 20 somethings 10 year olds, whatever, that would kick butt on video games on just about anybody, regardless of their cardiovascular health. I also know of plenty of people that can run great distances, and are superb athletes, that have very poor reaction times.



As for seeing reflexes and reaction times (moreso the latter) as not being the difference in accident avoidance, I reservedly disagree. In normal situations, knowing how ride as you mentioned, and taking precautions does the trick. But, all of us were newbies at one point, and the reason we made it far enough to learn these skills may have been reaction times. I think the newbie rider depends heavily on reactions and instincts (although many of these are wrong), but eventually he/she learns the skills to keep him/her alive. In abnormal situations, deer running out in front of us, cars swerving/braking into/in front of us, things that we cannot forsee, I think the reaction time makes a great deal of difference.
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Old 10-24-2001, 12:00 PM   #72
luvmyvfr
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Default I am sorry, but you are a moron

Quote me buddy. Where did I say those things? Look at your words "I guess," "I am sure," "he thinks," "he feels," "guys like him." You're a very exact person, aren't you?



You use a lot of generalities and assumptions. Don't try to put words in my mouth, focus instead on clarifying what is coming out of yours. As for responding to you, I am finished. Let the readers decide what they will.
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Old 10-24-2001, 12:03 PM   #73
Abe_Froman
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Default Great point......

In four of the five motorcycle crashes that I have personally witnessed (including one of my own) the police were purposefully avoided like the plague (no need to complicate things, and nobody likes tickets!) Three of these accidents involved injury (not terribly serious, of course, but broken collarbones, deep road rash, broken ankle, etc.) This would appear to be a large factor in debunking these statistics.
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Old 10-24-2001, 12:05 PM   #74
Abe_Froman
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Default Even in the other crash.....

when the police were called, the rider left the scene----but it's hard to avoid troopers on a busy interstate, especially when you can't take the busted bike with you or hide it to pick it up later!
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Old 10-24-2001, 12:11 PM   #75
Abe_Froman
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Default Helmet usage--

I would argue that it has now become (finally) en vogue to wear your helmet on a sportbike. In the large group that rides here in Minneapolis, full gear (helmet, jacket, gloves, and sometimes boots) is worn by probably 90% of the riders.
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Old 10-24-2001, 12:14 PM   #76
Abe_Froman
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Default Here we go again.....

Don't forget to line your hat with tinfoil as well.....
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Old 10-24-2001, 12:24 PM   #77
hola
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Default watta moron

Make a safer motorcycle - anti-lock brakes and fatter front and rear wheels.



Perhaps one is the most idiotic moto statements i have ever read. Oh, besides the one from a insurance company who defined "sportbike" as a bike having a bigger rear tire than the front !!!!



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Old 10-24-2001, 12:34 PM   #78
luvmyvfr
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Default Full gear usage--

I agree. Much as people put 4" exhausts on their nissan sentras as a status symbol and in trying to legitmize them as "real players," I think sportbike riders are buying leathers, gloves, helmets etc. to show that they're "real racers/riders", or at least fashion conscious/safety conscious. That shift is good news in my book, no matter the motivation for wearing the gear.
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Old 10-24-2001, 12:40 PM   #79
Abe_Froman
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Default hmmm...

You make an interesting observation from the study-----that the actual number of younger riders has dropped. From which I will draw a conclusion----that the increase in fatalities is NOT due to an increase in the number of novice sportbike riders, as has been suppositioned by many.



Secondly, you are right on in your assesment of the "risk" factor involved in motorcycling. If riding a motorcycle were somehow made as safe as driving a car, many non-motorcyclists would start riding, I suppose, and gone would be the attraction of being a member of a small, proud, tough, risk-taking subset of society who looks upon the general 4-wheeled public with disdain.
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Old 10-24-2001, 12:45 PM   #80
das
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Default Re: Sad News: Single-Vehicle Motorcycle Deaths Rise (Again!)

Yeah, but my VFR will do 135, and a Hayabusa will do 45. A beginner bike that had a max speed of 45 would be a hazard.



Fact is, 45mph is a pretty deadly speed if you wack into something hard, and, as professional road racers show us all the time, 135 isn't usually life-threatening if you have plenty of obstacle-free run-off. Obviously, 45mph is a much safer street speed than 135mph, but the point is that *any* bike can acheive speeds at which crashing and hitting a tree can kill you.



My conclusion is that limiting people based on riding experience to purchasing bikes under a given criteria (cc's, hp, power-to-weight ratio... whatever) is misguided.



The real goal is to have people to ride reasonably by their own will, regardless of what kind of bike they're on, and that is best done through education, not laws.

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