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Old 10-11-2001, 04:28 PM   #91
banker
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Default Re: Inseam-challenged Riders

Can't challenge your logic, but I will. The 1100 vstar and the shadow spirit/sabre are good values within +$200 of the America's price. Those brand's other, less expensive, bikes are also lesser bikes. Corrrect me if I'm wrong (I know someone will), but isn't the 60+ hp on the America at least a tad better than the 650's and 1100's? And don't our fearless reviewers sort of indicate handling that could be superior?



I honestly think this bike is not a copy of anything. Using some Triumph features and ideas from a 100 years of motorcycles at the same time. I think the designers accomplished their mission completely. The tank is obvious. But look at the front fender - identical in shape to the other Bonnie, but no support struts and fit to the tire like a custom. No other bike has this fender. The BIG headlight, etc.



All other things being equal, the Triumph does have cachet the others don't. Buying a new motorcycle is a pretty emotional (subjective) decision for most of us and the Bonnie is new and, well, er, a Triumph jacket/t-shirt/hat would look a whole lot cooler than one that says "VStar." (even with the Barry White music)



Don't know about you, but lowering the suspension on the W650 or other Bonnie so I can touch the ground to back it up might impact the bike's handling. Pity so many nice bikes have such high seats - Guzzis and BMWs among the worst, but even the SV650, Bandit, Monster, ZRX, etc. The Japanese bikes are a mystery to me. A whole country full of guys my size and bikes with 32" seat heights. Don't they have traffic lights? Do they ever back the bikes into spaces without getting off them first?

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Old 10-11-2001, 04:44 PM   #92
CarsSuck
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Default The TDM isn't made for dirt...

...at all, and the 270 crank was a specific solution to specific problems certain race teams were having, that happened to run in dirt. I have another version of your own question: Why DIDN'T the TDM get the 270 crank? That is, why didn't the version that doesn't happen to have a frame that looks like a Ducati's get that crank? And what a coincidence that the TRX850 is a euro only model, where the Monster was so popular. In superbike, the real power delivery issue is just twin vs four, not necessarilly the V angle. There's not a huge perceptible difference between the 60 degree aprilia and the 90 degree ducati's power deliveries that isn't a result of tune (rpm the power comes in, etc, which has nothing to do with v angle). V twins have been used in superbike because that's what ducati had success with (and L-twins are their trademark, they wouldn't have even tried anything else), and the only reason anyone else ever tried a twin was because of their success. The 90 degree v angle is chosen because of perfect primary balance (because of the directions the pistons are actually traveling in, not the firing timing), and other twin makers haven't wanted to stray too far from the proven formula (even though they all seemed to miss the very important triangulated steel trellis frame), except for Aprilia, because they're cool enough to be a little original. Uh, and Harley, even though they got beat by everyone.
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Old 10-11-2001, 04:56 PM   #93
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Default I don't give a damn about sport bike fairings.

Or what bankers think. And scooters and lawn mowers are legitimate products, tools and machines designed around a function. This is an image kit that pays homage to Honda Shadows, some of the dumbest bikes ever made (and the Shadow DOES devalue the Honda brand). It takes a motor that's on kind of shaky ground (looks kinda like the old one, but isn't), and puts it in the worst light it could be seen in. Just when I was pretty sure I liked this new bonneville. You've heard of guilt by association. Well no offense, but I wouldn't want to be associated with you (or sport bike posers or any other kind of posers either, fyi). Sure, I'd still buy a speed triple, and I'd be just as proud of the spondon-style chassis and 3 cylinder motor if I did, but I'd be a little less proud of the name on the tank.
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Old 10-11-2001, 04:57 PM   #94
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Default Re: Bonneville America Reader Feedback

I ride a Heritage Softail. The America has really caught my eye. Different but obviously a Triumph. Priced realistically.



Will the HD faithful accept it? Yeah, right. They think Sportsters are first bikes for girls. They'll ride a clone bike like Titan without a single HD part on it and still tatoo a giant HD emblem on their heads and complain about "Jap bikes" ripping Harley off. Narrow minded? Maybe carssuck is the only one around with less depth. Much less depth.

Actually, when you get them one on one they might say they like a non-Harley or two. But they always travel in gaggles. OK maybe I overstate, but in general no other bike will do. Not Victory, and not Triumph. Pity to miss so much in life.



Many nonHarley Cruiser people will love it and wish they had waited until it came out to purchase.

However...Will this be enough motivation, if it sells, for Harley to finally update the Sportster?
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Old 10-11-2001, 08:40 PM   #95
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Default Re: More heritage than you

And would you have had a Harley V-Twin without the Indian V-Twin? (BTW, Indian & Norton both had V-Twin bikes in 1907, but Norton bought their engines from Peugeot then...)
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Old 10-11-2001, 08:57 PM   #96
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Default Re: Inseam-challenged Riders

Actually, a cooler jacket to wear IMO is one that says nothing...



Emotion is the main reason why I would consider a W650 over a Nighthawk 750 or GS500E. A kickstarter and centrestand are reasons why I would choose it over the Bonneville.
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Old 10-11-2001, 09:13 PM   #97
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Default Re: On Shadows and names on tanks

Probably the best that can be said about the Shadow is that it is reliable. Because it is reliable, and has a relatively compact drivetrain, it could be used as the starting point for the PC800 Pacific Coast, a truly innovative motorcycle.



As for the name on the tank, most if not all of those can be taken off or painted over. The main reason why I would not do that to a W650 is to show that I am NOT a poser trying to make people think I'm on a Triumph. I have taken the tank badges off my TwinStar. Why am I displaying Honda's name on my bike when they're not paying me for advertising?
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Old 10-12-2001, 12:34 PM   #98
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Default Re: Too little juice

The EVO HP reading was rear wheel, the America's is at the crank. Expect a significant differential when rear wheel is measured. I still think it will be plenty for a 500 lb bike,though.
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Old 10-12-2001, 04:37 PM   #99
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Default The PC800 is innovative

in terms of looking wierd, and it's styling capacity. Other than that, it's not that capable or high tech. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, but aside from trunk space and looks it didn't break any new ground--it even has a drum brake on the back.



As for the name on the gas tank, I meant that more symbolically. I don't usually leave a name on the tank once I'm ready to paint it.
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Old 10-12-2001, 10:56 PM   #100
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Default Re: The PC800 is innovative

<blockquote>I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it (the PC800 Pacific Coast), but aside from trunk space and looks it didn't break any new ground--it even has a drum brake on the back.</blockquote>



Not so much trunk space as an integral trunk, which is about as innovative (and apparently as popular) as the Yamaha GTS1000's hub-centre steering system. The Pacific Coast was possible due to a compact and reliable drivetrain, which the Shadow provided. It was a valid evolution of the sport tourer toward the touring side: more and better integrated luggage space while the rest of the package is reliable and competent.
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