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Old 04-10-2001, 06:31 PM   #51
bluedot
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Default Well put ..

I hate to pick on you guys because I really do respect your opinions.

(that's why I donated)



But I'd hate to think you did all the work on this test only to give us the answer you thought we wanted.



If a majority of readers want real world / street bias to the tests, then maybe include a footnote portion to each test with your street opinions.



I still think to take a bike that so obviously raises the open class performance bar up so far in one step, and turn it down because it does just that ... is not the message to send to manufacturers.



Whether or not I'm personally capable of riding it at 10/10ths.. I'd like to see some of this new 4stroke GP technology make it to the street one day. If the R1 is the performance benchmark that shouldn't be passed, then what will be the point.



ok made my point .. I'll shut up now (grin)





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Old 04-10-2001, 07:05 PM   #52
Dneall
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

Maybe you should rename the article from 'Open Bike Shootout' to 'Easiest Open Bike to Handle'??? I agree the engine stats need to be backed up by the chassis, suspension and brakes to make a package but they'd have to be a lot worse then I've heard to lose the shootout to an aged design like the Yamaha.



Your invalid reasons for awarding the title to the R1 just show that you guy's have indeed gone soft.
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Old 04-10-2001, 07:09 PM   #53
01_929
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

This is the first time I've ever felt totally against MO's decision's in the open class shootout's. I've ridden all of these bikes except for the Gixxer and it wasn't hard for me to choose the 929 as the winner. Yes, I do road race and I log about 10,000 miles a year in Iowa on the streets alone. I just don't agree that the R1 deserves to win yet another year. It's an incredible bike, no doubt, but the Gixxer, having better performance, should have won. That's my 2 cents.
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Old 04-10-2001, 07:28 PM   #54
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Default Re: Well put ..

Point well taken. We are trying to pick out the best sportbike "for the rest of us." That doesn't make it right, just our opinion.



If the great majority of people will be able to go faster on one bike over another, does it matter which makes more power on a dyno?



Isn't it even more depressing to be thoughtlessly swayed by the numbers game, only to be smoked by bikes you've just snubbed as being "slow"? Consider how much embarrassment we'll have saved people by making them think twice about what they buy. At the very least, if you are swayed by dyno numbers alone, at least now astute MO readers will know not to go shooting their mouths off (though I doubt some of those here would ever be able to hold thier tongues!), lest their hubris gets them left behind in the next, great canyon ride.
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Old 04-10-2001, 07:39 PM   #55
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

I haven't seen lap times for the 2000 or 2001 open classers in Cycle World. Perhaps you could enlighten me to which issue holds these elusive times. Oh yeah, thanks for the belittlement. You should be proud.
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Old 04-10-2001, 07:45 PM   #56
TCAir
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

Here is my Half-a-cent worth.



I don't like the R1! I am the first to admit it. Very uncomfortable to me. (I am 6'5") The CBR was about perfect (I like the pegs a little farther back, RC51 felt real good for agressive riding.) and I just haven't had much luck with Team Green, the bike felt a little heavy and pigish for what it was supposed to be. I haven't had the pleasure of riding a Gixxer 1K but the 750 wasn't a disappointment. (I have always had a soft spot for the Suz.)



BUT...



Which way was this test supposed to go? If all out excess is what you are after (and only 1 out 1 million DON'T buy liter class sport bikes for excess) The Suzuki would have to win out of shear pucker factor. If it is street I think the Honda would win. This would leave the Yamaha in 2nd both ways. If this test was supposed to be "Buy one sportbike ONLY" Then I can see the Yamaha winning, but almost no one serious about racing has only one bike for street and track. (Actually I can think of no one but there is always an exception)



I think I will get a RC51 or Aprilla (need to ride the 'prilla first though) I don't own a sport bike, but I think either one of them will be beyond my riding duties, which usually keeps me out of trouble.



I guess that was about 65 cents worth.
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Old 04-10-2001, 07:45 PM   #57
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

I've raced both Porsches (POC) and bikes(WSMC) at Willow. If your thinking of comparing telemetry between a car and a bike, don't use a Porsche as the basis for the car world. I've raced variants from a 130hp '74 911 to a 600hp fiberglass bodied 911 GT2. The 911 by nature, is a completely different animal. While every car does have it's own character, the 911 is the Garry McCoy of the grocery haulers . It has to be steered with the throttle.

I can tell you that a newer 911 GT2 should do sub '18's on the big track... and it's also a six-digit investment.

I think a good comparison would be a Viper, C4 Vette, or an M3 against the R1. While it's much easier to be a hero in a car, I still think the R1 will take 'em all by at least several seconds a lap. Just make sure you don't make the same mistake as your predecessor. Turning a 1.37 on an open class bike(YZF 1000?) was a joke. My$.02
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Old 04-10-2001, 07:52 PM   #58
doclonghair
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

Here's a suggestion, or perhaps a question. Please feel free to ream me if I'm off my rocker.



Why do you, minime et al, have to pick a winner? It seems to me that you'd save a lot of space if you didn't. A cursory inspection of the article (with Word's word count) indicated that 10% of it was spent justifying choosing an underdog. Not to mention all the cr** you take from your loyal readers here.



I guess I've never really cared about which bike the particular magazine crowns. I study the characteristics that the editors describe and decide which bike I'd most enjoy based on my own criteria. I suspect that most people do the same.



(And there are also the times that the editors' biases lead to ridiculous rankings, like the placement of the Sportster over the 'hawk and the KLR in '00 valuebikes. Please.)



Anyway... I'm curious to hear why you guys _do_ rank the bikes, instead of just reporting characteristics and impressions.



-doc
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Old 04-10-2001, 07:54 PM   #59
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

I saw this saying somewhere; All that is complex is not useful, but all that is useful is simple. I think in many cases this applies to the tests and comments here. Too much is made of specs and times, etc. If I were given a GSX1000 to run against ANY MO tester, you might as well have given me a Honda XR80. I will still lose, but at least one the 80 I wil not die. Complexity and horsepower are not the only factors, yet over and over people on here zoom in on these 2 features. What if the thing has 200 HP, runs an 8 sec 1/4 but has a seat made of coffee cup styrofoam? Useless! The job of a writer here is to put the stats into perspective from a use-ability standpoint. That is probably why the R1 wins. These bikes are far too serious for most riders. Put it in this perspective; If all you have to ride is a 1973 CB350, a 1973 DB350 is far more fun that nothing. Now a Honda XR-80 vs. a CB 350! THERE is a shootout!



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Old 04-10-2001, 08:18 PM   #60
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

"Army of Darkness", actually.
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