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Old 04-11-2001, 09:18 PM   #171
TAFB
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

To those who are thinking of buying a gixxer (to the extent they are still available) and those who are waiting for their gixxers to come in -- MO missed the boat in its "street based shortcomings" criticism of the gixxer. My gixxer came in in early March, and I use it to commute to work and for short to medium rides on back roads (50-100 miles). Having grown up on a CBR 600F2, I was worried about the comfort factor with the gixxer. Although the riding position is racier than the CBR, it is very comfortable and a pleasant commuter (for a sportbike). In fact, the buzz from the bars is less on the gixxer than it was on the CBR and a 2001 R1 that I rode. After a recent 30+ mile ride, my friend (who was riding his new 2001 R1) was complaining of his wrist and arms hurting him, while mine felt fine. Not science; just a real story for what it is worth. As for the balls to the wall engine, the bike is Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Keeping the rpms below 7-8000 rpms, the gixxer is mild mannered and reacts and handles much like the CBR (except that, if you want to make a pass, you do not have to down shift two gears -- just twist). It is EASY to handle in this range, and both wheels are firmly planted to the ground with great feedback. But if you are not in the mood for mild mannered, open it up and hang on! You have to ride it to believe it, but the handling and suspension seem to work even better the faster you go. Too much power? No way --enough power to do whatever you want, when you want, including passing your friend on his 2001 R1 at will. Will you crash if you go beyond your limit? Yup. But if you try going around a 10mph curve on a moped going 40mph, you'll probably dump that too (note to MO -- the word is "too," not "two").
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Old 04-11-2001, 09:54 PM   #172
blip
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

Funny, what made me think of it was grepmail'ing through some years-old e-mails (I must have a million e-mails stored here now!) looking for something else about Team Suzuki Endurance, when I stumbled on your original e-mails. You forget the hubris that got you into that school in the first place! The last e-mail I saw was the Ninja 250 challenge and you wanting a warm-up session. If I messed up anything else, my apologies.



Anyway, it was a most excellent, timeless story, one we're going to relink in a more prominate spot soon (a "Learning to ride" category). Good reading, for sure, and glad to hear you're still lurking around, Bob.



I thought the Suzuki should've won too, but I didn't have time to go to the track, so I didn't get to vote since I didn't get to actually ride the bikes back-to-back in a controlled condition. But I accept that I wasn't there, though I did ride them on the street, and things are always different when you actually ride the bikes.



I have great respect for Brent Avis, Calvin Kim and Nigel Gale. I've known Nigel for a decade now. I don't think any of the whining posters have ridden all of these bikes back-to-back on the track with race-compound tires should be posting such drivel. The state of these boards reminds me of 1997 when we did away with our old HTMLBBS system. The negativity and BS was overwhelming, and it drove all the reasonable people away. Who wants to drive the nice people away, and keep the jerks? Not me, thus, not MO.



We're getting to that point now, and it's sad. We have appointed several dozen MO readers who've shown the ability to think before they post Moderator power, and charged them with moderating down troll posts and changed our mind on deleting the outright crap -- I think not deleting anything all those years ago was what encouraged the rejects to flame away. They seem to be doing a good decent job here, though it's a fruitless task.



Not sure where this is going, other than that I'm leaving for four days. I'd like to say that I'll talk with you'all later here, but the shlt and egos are so deep here, I'll not read this board again, and will decide over that time whether or not to, once again, remove the reader feedback areas.
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Old 04-12-2001, 01:45 AM   #173
Louwtjie
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Default Re: Oh the shame

I agree with your previous statement about which bike goes faster round a track... but I want to add some stuff I believe as well.



Mostly tracks dictate the type of bike that will succeed. I'm from Cape Town, South Africa and our local track ( regional racers ) all choose 600's even though you can take any ( I mean ANY ) bike out there.



I'm not too sure, but the GSXR750 are doing the best lap times here, apart from 1 or 2 guys that bring their R7's for a spin.



Apart from the 600's there are also a couple of V-twins that do very well.



I believe that not the MAX numbers ( hp/torque ), but the way the power gets down to the wheel through the rev range are more important.



Comparing bikes on a track for real world conditions are useless. Rather take a stretch of road 50+ miles, with a canyon ( mountian pass ), straights etc. etc. and see what happens.

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Old 04-12-2001, 03:00 AM   #174
929MAN
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

I gotta say, these guys lack consistency. In the end, these guys are just three schmucks with an opinion.



They say this class is all about horsepower, than they rank the most powerful Suzuki 2nd. Then upon asking us and hearing that we are more interested in a street bias on these tests, rank the Honda 3rd even though they admit it’s the best street tool here. Finally they choose the Yamaha even though the Honda had better brakes, chassis, front-end feel, flickability, is lighter, yada yada yada. Nobody will take ‘em seriously, especially when Hack Fu has such a clear negative bias towards Honda’s as he proved with the 600 shoot out.



But what really gets me is that obviously they didnÂ’t do new dyno tests. These are the same questionable figures from the last shootout that show an 8 horsepower difference between the 929 and the R-1. Comparison dyno tests are only accurate on new, properly broken in bikes tested together on the same day on the same dyno, and even this canÂ’t compensate for production tolerances that are common with each bike. The tests that IÂ’ve seen that have done this donÂ’t show the kinds of variances that MO show. For example, MB4U.com show a 3.3 horsepower difference, 2WF.com show a 1.1 difference, AprilÂ’s MotorCyclist show a 1.4 difference, and March Superbike show a 2 horsepower difference, yes in YamahaÂ’s favor. The big gixer didnÂ’t show that big of a power advantage either. Furthermore, most of these tests show that while the R-1 might have a faster straight line "seat of the pants" impression than the 929, by no means did this equate to faster straight line numbers. DuhÂ…ever hear of power to weight ratios? But am I surprised at MO? Considering that these guys have always picked Yamahas going back to their inceptionÂ…No!



But as a 929 owner, I know the R-1 has more torque and has better roll-ons, but so what, shift gears stupid! To me the 929 accomplished what even the mighty Suzuki couldnÂ’t, its feels like a 600 with liter bike power. IsnÂ’t that the ultimate? If I need more horsepower (which I donÂ’t), 180 rear wheel horsepower on my 929 is available straight out of Erion RacingÂ’s catalogue. But you know what? I donÂ’t need more horsepower, and I donÂ’t need an R-1 (or especially a GSXR) riding position for my half a dozen track days a year.



Ps. Whats with the Champions Edition R-1Â…champion of what? DidnÂ’t the Honda win Formula Extreme two years in a row?

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Old 04-12-2001, 04:44 AM   #175
ZRXRy
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

What you say???



All your horsepower are belong to us?



Someone set up us the bomb!



You know what you doing...
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Old 04-12-2001, 04:48 AM   #176
ZRXRy
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

Even more fun: do it on an ugly, banged-up sport-tourer with great big hard saddlebags lightly dragging on the asphalt as you go around them in the turn.



(Me on Concours at Parry Sound sportbike rally 2 years ago)



Man, that's really hard on the old ego, eh?
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Old 04-12-2001, 05:08 AM   #177
navion_pa1
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

Your in good shape, just get both bikes. But better not let her learn how to ride or your end up with three or four bike's.



Uh, listen to that, that's not a problem.



Sorry brain fart.
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Old 04-12-2001, 05:24 AM   #178
BBD_Racing
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!



You're welcome, Mick.



It is an interesting philosophical point. Lately, I have been on a "floggability" kick. I sold my F4 because it was hard to use the performance on the street. Not because it is too fast per se, but because I can't afford to get caught experiencing 2nd and 3rd gear (a 2nd gear experience early one Saturday morning cost me $500). To me, being able to beat the daylights out of a bike is great fun (ergo, my love for dirt).



Still, that exists in opposition to my adoration of power. Once, I rode a built Blackbird (155 dyno-verified hp). Lovely. Unfortunatly, traffic kept rushing up on me and I had to shut it down prematurely.



Maybe I need to move to the desert.......



As for Pamela, this too illustrates a point. She just doesn't do it for me - a good example of the whole taste thing. To MO, massive and accessible performance is preferable to really massive and kinda unaccessible performance. My brother likes implants, I don't. Who's to judge?



Have fun, ride safe.
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Old 04-12-2001, 05:28 AM   #179
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Default Re: Oh the shame

A while back, Roadracing World went to Oak Hill Raceway (a horrendous, bumpy, patched wreck of a track in NE Texas) and ran the ZX9, R1 and 929. They had National-class racers on them. The ZX9 was fastest. Interesting.
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Old 04-12-2001, 05:39 AM   #180
ZRXRy
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

You mean Csaba Csere? (Ka-sa-ba? Saab-ah? My Hungarian friend tells me that these are Hungarian names, and the correct pronounciation would be something like "Chubba Cheer". the "Cs" is not a consonant slide like in English, but a double letter making a sound roughly equivalent to "Ch" in English). I just though other gearheads who have seen that name over the years might be interested to know how it is pronounced, and why.
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