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Old 04-11-2001, 07:57 AM   #121
Shaft
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

Exactly what I thought... and they actually accuse the magazines of taking money from certain manufacturers as to why the Honda or GSXR won.



We must realize that MO is just a mediocre, online enthusiast' source for "OK" information. They aren't anywhere near the place Motorcyclist, Cycle World, Performance Bike, etc. are and we shouldn't expect them to be. Just take it as it is and be happy I guess.
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Old 04-11-2001, 08:29 AM   #122
Haru
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

The ZX9 is a sort of cross between a VFR and an R1. Instead of appreciating its versatility and wide ranging appeal, reviewers keep judging it by race replica standards and dumping it in last place.



Just goes to show how out of touch with real world riders magazine reviewers really are. They play with toys they didn't spend their money on and don't have to live with on a day to day basis for years. How little they know about what it takes to have a long term relationship with a motorcycle.



The R1 and the GSXR are awesome bikes, don't get me wrong. I am just getting very skeptical about how meaningful reviewers opinions really are.
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Old 04-11-2001, 08:40 AM   #123
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Default The same thing was said of the R1 when it debuted

Most articles I read about the R1 when it made it's debut said the same thing. 'oh, well it's one helluva bike but it's too much', 'you just can't feel comfortable riding it', 'it's so cutting-edge it's near impossible to control'. Bottom line they all said it was just too damn scary; so agile and flickable that it felt unstable and scared you away from the edge. They all said to get a CBR 900 or a ZX-9R instead, they're not so scary.





Now, a few years later every one's had a chance to get to know the R1. They're used it, they know what it can do and how it feels so it doesn't scare them any more. So now they can take it to the edge and feel in their element there. But they're not familiar with the GSX-R so it's scaring them away just like the R1 did.





I've got a great pair of boots. They're tough as nails, but it took them weeks to break-in my feet. But I expect to get a few blisters with new boots -- that's just the way it is. Now they feel fantastic to me. The GSX-R's not too much, it just hasn't broken you in yet.






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Old 04-11-2001, 09:09 AM   #124
MitchAlsup
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

I think the big difference between a well setup car and a well setup bike on a fastish track is that the bike must be operated inside the stability envelope, while a car can be operated outside the envelope for short periods of time. Smaller differences acrue due to transmissions (primarily down shifting), and turn transitions.



For example, in the test between the Acura and the Bike, the Acura driver did little braking into turn 1 (Willow) and threw the car sideways, using the slide to scrub off speed, and the throttle to balance the trajectory of the car. Maybe some hot shoes could do this on a bike on a track knee down but not I.



Another example: transitions from left to right (and vice versa) the bike must go from leaning 45 degrees in one direction to 45 degrees in the other, while the car may only roll from 3 degrees one way to 3 degrees the other. Now I've seen GP bikes make very fast transitions, but not nearly as fast as a well setup high performance street car.



Then every once in a while you will run into a situation where the manual stick in a car can be shifted from high (5,6th) to 2nd in a single shift. The same situation on a bike would cause 4 toe taps to get it done.



Finally, it is a lot easier to overstear a car out of a long high speed sweeper than a bike. Yes I see it done all the time in bike racing, but I know drivers who do it all the time on the street (far from cities/crowds).



That said, I still find my bike more sintilating for those 200 mile trips from my driveway to my driveway than my Grand Sport Vette.
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Old 04-11-2001, 09:43 AM   #125
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

I'm not kissing anyones butt, LeadCanoe. And I agree, the writers should be accountable, but if everyone is going to jump down their throats everytime they write an article, they will stop writing articles and you wont have anything to read.
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Old 04-11-2001, 09:49 AM   #126
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Default Re:

I'm not trying to defend MO, buf if they are so pro-Yamaha (and getting kick backs for favorable reviews), why'd they trash the FZ1 so badly?
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Old 04-11-2001, 10:11 AM   #127
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Default RE: ZX-9....it was a YZF1000,

Don Canet's speed on dirty / dusty pavement, should be pretty freakin high. He organizes the STTARS (Super Motard) series in the United States. He's a consistant top 5 finisher and trust me.... Super TT racing is all about high corner speed, on slippery surfaces. (of course if Donster is who I suspect he is, he already knows that
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Old 04-11-2001, 10:16 AM   #128
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

You're spot on with that comment. Most of the people who write these reviews don't have to live with a bike. Heck, they have a stable of the latest bikes to choose from, and somebody else pays all the costs of maintaining it. So they just ride them, and give opinions. That is what these reviews should be taken as.



You want to know something about a bike, ask somebody who owns one, they'll have much more practical information for the prospetive buyer.
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Old 04-11-2001, 10:18 AM   #129
LoganGixY2K
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Default Re: Oh the shame

I personally don't believe we are close to the power to weight ratio the superbikes have to deal with. Although slowly, we are getting to that point.



180hp : 370 lbs (superbike)

145hp : 440 lbs (GSXR1000)



Once we start to get to the Superbike category of P to W ratio then we should start thinking of power management, chasis and suspension. Right now I don't feel my 1k has passed that point. And I'm a guy with 25+ yrs of riding experience that hopes one day will have a chance to ride a Superbike spec bike.



I do like bikes that make you go "Oh my GOOODD!!!". The R1 did it during its reign and now the will do it for me.
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Old 04-11-2001, 10:47 AM   #130
Colorado_F4
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Default Re: Open Bike Shootout Feedback!

Good point about comparison against an RC51. I would also like to see MO compare bikes to each other that aren't in the same class. It's hard to score a test ride on some of these bikes, so it would be great to have insights on how a super-sport(600) compares to an open classer, and how an open-classer compares to a 1000cc twin. Yes I know there are obvious differences but real-world comparisons would be cool.
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